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Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

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Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#101

Post by baybal2 »

docbrown wrote: post #40
mindfulplay wrote: post #18

This reminds me of software developer who favor deep, technical, architectural work instead of attractive, "sounds cool on paper" sort of work. To an outsider, the animations look cool but the engine that drives the animation is cooler to software engineers. Point being, this is not something a normal philanthropist would imagine being cool and awesome. This takes someone who actually cares about shit (in this case l…

One thing I always thought fascinating about Gates was his candid relationship with feces. mindfuplay’s comment reminded me of the famous glass of shit water Gates drank from his Omniprocessor project [0]. But within that 2015 article, Gates mentions a long term plan for seweage and shit[1]: >If we can develop safe, affordable ways to get rid of human waste, we can prevent many of those deaths and help more children…

>>Western toilets aren’t the answer, because they require a massive infrastructure of sewer lines and treatment plants that just isn’t feasible in many poor countries.

Then build it! No magic tricks there.

I think, this is the most infuriating trait I see in all Silicon Valley "sophisticated person" types.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#102

Post by blowski »

baybal2 wrote: post #101
docbrown wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I always thought fascinating about Gates was his candid relationship with feces. mindfuplay’s comment reminded me of the famous glass of shit water Gates drank from his Omniprocessor project [0]. But within that 2015 article, Gates mentions a long term plan for seweage and shit[1]: >If we can develop safe, affordable ways to get rid of human waste, we can prevent many of those deaths and help more children…

>>Western toilets aren’t the answer, because they require a massive infrastructure of sewer lines and treatment plants that just isn’t feasible in many poor countries. Then build it! No magic tricks there. I think, this is the most infuriating trait I see in all Silicon Valley "sophisticated person" types.

Build what? What trait?

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#103

Post by renjimen »

baybal2 wrote: post #101
docbrown wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I always thought fascinating about Gates was his candid relationship with feces. mindfuplay’s comment reminded me of the famous glass of shit water Gates drank from his Omniprocessor project [0]. But within that 2015 article, Gates mentions a long term plan for seweage and shit[1]: >If we can develop safe, affordable ways to get rid of human waste, we can prevent many of those deaths and help more children…

>>Western toilets aren’t the answer, because they require a massive infrastructure of sewer lines and treatment plants that just isn’t feasible in many poor countries. Then build it! No magic tricks there. I think, this is the most infuriating trait I see in all Silicon Valley "sophisticated person" types.

It’s pure pragmatism. There aren’t the resources to build and maintain a sewage network everywhere it is required. Having a more self contained, affordable solution is better for many places.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#104

Post by satysin »

It many not be cool and glamorous but dealing with human waste in a hygienic way has been one of the biggest benefits to society that not many people think about. Better toilets means better overall hygiene which means less people sick which means a stronger more reliable workforce and less money wasted on easy to prevent illnesses.

For all of the negative things Bill Gates did when at Microsoft I am glad to see most of the money he made from those actions are being used for such positive things now rather than just going back into SV startups and the like.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#105

Post by m_mueller »

gnarbarian wrote: post #69
m_mueller wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"really all they need to figure out first is to talk to each other before we build mobile cell towers for them" innovations drive change drive more innovation. I recommend Hans Rosling's talks. There is no such thing as the "Third World" anymore, they're all on various development trajectories. Don't think e.g. Somalia is typical for Africa.

And what I'm saying is a outhouse /is/ a huge innovation to many places in Western Africa and India. It's largely a cultural problem like rampant littering or pollution. One guy digging an outhouse and shitting in it won't make any more difference than a single person recycling. But if enough people do it they will see a huge improvement in public health and infant mortality.

I'd argue that going from shitting in the woods to a well engineered and cheap toilet is a much more attractive step for most people than having them dig outhouses. It's like with the washing mashines - once electrification is there it's one of the first purchases since it's such a quality of life improvement, and this has happened for a majority of the world's population.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#106

Post by gtsteve »

baybal2 wrote: post #101
docbrown wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I always thought fascinating about Gates was his candid relationship with feces. mindfuplay’s comment reminded me of the famous glass of shit water Gates drank from his Omniprocessor project [0]. But within that 2015 article, Gates mentions a long term plan for seweage and shit[1]: >If we can develop safe, affordable ways to get rid of human waste, we can prevent many of those deaths and help more children…

>>Western toilets aren’t the answer, because they require a massive infrastructure of sewer lines and treatment plants that just isn’t feasible in many poor countries. Then build it! No magic tricks there. I think, this is the most infuriating trait I see in all Silicon Valley "sophisticated person" types.

I'm not a civil engineer but I do work with them occasionally. There are numerous challenges with this, probably the hardest is water pressure: if the water pressure cannot be guaranteed then poor plumbing can send waste water back into the water main, which is a really big problem.

I also assume that to ensure water pressure involves electricity - a lot of poorer countries do not have a constant or reliable electricity supply.

Building this sort of infrastructure is a massive engineering task and it can take years to complete a project like this. It requires skilled engineers and labour. During that time, people will die because it's not done yet.

In conclusion, I think Gates and co have made a good investment.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#107

Post by gtsteve »

the_duke wrote: post #75
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #62

Since I recently read The Expanse, I keep thinking, more than usual, about the basic life supporting technologies we'd need to be able to live anywhere else in the solar system. In The Expanse all biological waste goes into the recycler , which, evidently, feeds a bioreactor to general clean water and new food. It sounds like what Gates is keen to see deployed: Human waste > fertiliser > new food and hydrogen > fuel…

Side question: are the books sufficiently different to the TV series to warrant a reading?

A lot of the key events are the same, although the timeline is moved around to introduce some characters sooner. The books go into far more detail about the cultures and their values, and backstory to the characters.

I personally recommend it. I'm typically quite busy so I don't really make my way through more than 1-2 books a month but I think I read all the books that are currently out in about 6 weeks.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#108

Post by jjeaff »

odonnellryan wrote: post #99
nradov wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western toilets seem to work reasonably well with septic tanks in rural areas. Those don't involve sewer lines or treatment plants.

Where do you think the poop goes when it gets pumped out? In the sailing community more and more people are using composting toilets: https://farmingmybackyard.com/diy-composting-toilet/ As long as it is disposed of safely (properly composted), the cost here is the composting material.

Most properly sized and installed septic tanks do not ever need to be pumped out. They compost on their own and the excess water seeps out underground.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#109

Post by sonnyblarney »

I admire Gates a lot, but for him and way too many technophiles the answer is somehow always tech.

Africa does not have a toilet problem. Or a tech problem. Or even a resources problem. They have a lack of intelligent social organization problem; i.e. dysfunctional or non-existent institutions, laws and organizational structures, as well as myriad forms of corruption from top to bottom that make it impossible to create the systems that would otherwise keep them healthy, sanitary, safe, well-fed yada yada.

Maybe he could publicly ask, how every year, the Minister of Finance in Nigeria publishes a note indicating there is somehow billions of dollars missing from the coffers, that didn't make it over from the Ministry of Petro Resources, i.e Oil [1]? Or the like. Tackling the more obvious, glaring wide-open 'in our faces but we ignore anyhow' forms of corruption might be a good start, and would ultimately yield a lot more than functional toilets.

[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/03/ni...

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#110

Post by majani »

As an African, I can't help but think that all this charity to Africa might be contributing to us lagging behind in the world. With charities helping out so much, will the local government ever get their act together and provide these functions of public sanitation like they are supposed to? Or will they keep stealing public health funds in the knowledge that charity will always swoop down to save the day?

Charities work with the premise of preventing suffering, but most developed countries can point to a "great suffering" that made them quickly turn their shit around, akin to an addict hitting rock bottom. I would liken charity in Africa to the enabler who always features in morbidly obese people's lives, constantly bringing the person food out of a misplaced sense of love, where perhaps the truly loving thing to do would be to let the person hit rock bottom and change themselves.

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