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Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

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Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#61

Post by gnarbarian »

aerophilic wrote: post #53
nradov wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western toilets seem to work reasonably well with septic tanks in rural areas. Those don't involve sewer lines or treatment plants.

The issue comes down to cost. As he mentions in the article, the goal is to get to 5 cents a day. Just a basic calculation, a “standard” septic system costs between $1500-4000 to install, and lasts roughly 25 years. Just doing the math on the low end costs brings you to about $0.16 cents a day, 3X the goal Bill Gates is advocating. Note: this isn’t even taking into account the cost of the toilet itself or any plumbin…

Really all you'd need to do to drastically improve things is get them to simply dig a hole for an outhouse instead of the rampant open defecation seen in India and some parts of Africa. We can solve the more complex and exponentially expensive problems of water treatment later. Digging a deep hole gets rid of rampant cholera and incidental exposure.

Basically you've got to learn to crawl before you can run a 10k.

edit: You can get someone who is completely illiterate and cut off from civilization to understand the concept of digging a hole for the shit to go in. This has the added benefit of not requiring advanced manufacturing technology or materials. they just have to dig a hole and move the outhouse top over to the new hole when the old one gets full. This makes them self reliant.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#62

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

Since I recently read The Expanse, I keep thinking, more than usual, about the basic life supporting technologies we'd need to be able to live anywhere else in the solar system.

In The Expanse all biological waste goes into the recycler, which, evidently, feeds a bioreactor to general clean water and new food.

It sounds like what Gates is keen to see deployed: Human waste > fertiliser > new food and hydrogen > fuel cell > energy & water.

We're still a long waste from having anything anywhere near a closed system. Baby steps.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#63

Post by godelmachine »

docbrown wrote: post #40
mindfulplay wrote: post #18

This reminds me of software developer who favor deep, technical, architectural work instead of attractive, "sounds cool on paper" sort of work. To an outsider, the animations look cool but the engine that drives the animation is cooler to software engineers. Point being, this is not something a normal philanthropist would imagine being cool and awesome. This takes someone who actually cares about shit (in this case l…

One thing I always thought fascinating about Gates was his candid relationship with feces. mindfuplay’s comment reminded me of the famous glass of shit water Gates drank from his Omniprocessor project [0]. But within that 2015 article, Gates mentions a long term plan for seweage and shit[1]: >If we can develop safe, affordable ways to get rid of human waste, we can prevent many of those deaths and help more children…

If you watch the video properly you will see that he did not drink the water

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#64

Post by adwn »

godelmachine wrote: post #63
docbrown wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I always thought fascinating about Gates was his candid relationship with feces. mindfuplay’s comment reminded me of the famous glass of shit water Gates drank from his Omniprocessor project [0]. But within that 2015 article, Gates mentions a long term plan for seweage and shit[1]: >If we can develop safe, affordable ways to get rid of human waste, we can prevent many of those deaths and help more children…

If you watch the video properly you will see that he did not drink the water

> * If you watch the video properly you will see that he did not drink the water*

Then what's he doing at 1:52?

Although granted, the Janicki Omniprocessor website says that it doesn't quite produce drinking water quality.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#65

Post by m_mueller »

gnarbarian wrote: post #61
aerophilic wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue comes down to cost. As he mentions in the article, the goal is to get to 5 cents a day. Just a basic calculation, a “standard” septic system costs between $1500-4000 to install, and lasts roughly 25 years. Just doing the math on the low end costs brings you to about $0.16 cents a day, 3X the goal Bill Gates is advocating. Note: this isn’t even taking into account the cost of the toilet itself or any plumbin…

Really all you'd need to do to drastically improve things is get them to simply dig a hole for an outhouse instead of the rampant open defecation seen in India and some parts of Africa. We can solve the more complex and exponentially expensive problems of water treatment later. Digging a deep hole gets rid of rampant cholera and incidental exposure. Basically you've got to learn to crawl before you can run a 10k. edi…

"really all they need to figure out first is to talk to each other before we build mobile cell towers for them"

innovations drive change drive more innovation. I recommend Hans Rosling's talks. There is no such thing as the "Third World" anymore, they're all on various development trajectories. Don't think e.g. Somalia is typical for Africa.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#66

Post by m_mueller »

zukunftsalick wrote: post #60

TOTO has been researching and improving toilets for many years. I've been to their Toilet museum in Kitakyushu, Japan and it's just amazing the research they put into it, specially in water savings measures. What's missing for them, it's to make them more affordable to everyone.

Many Japanese companies could make so much money if they'd figure out the international markets.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#67

Post by panabee »

one potential area of innovation for toilets is in hospitals or pharmacies where people could defecate/urinate in a "smart toilet" which chemically analyzes the waste matter and sends results to a central lab for reporting.

when technology gets cheap enough, these smart toilets could then move from healthcare businesses into the home, analyzing waste matter on a daily basis to yield health insights.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#68

Post by breck »

panabee wrote: post #67

one potential area of innovation for toilets is in hospitals or pharmacies where people could defecate/urinate in a "smart toilet" which chemically analyzes the waste matter and sends results to a central lab for reporting. when technology gets cheap enough, these smart toilets could then move from healthcare businesses into the home, analyzing waste matter on a daily basis to yield health insights.

Anytime this idea comes up I have to mention: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJklHwoYgBQ

A funny parody of SV but also has some neat ideas.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#69

Post by gnarbarian »

m_mueller wrote: post #65
gnarbarian wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really all you'd need to do to drastically improve things is get them to simply dig a hole for an outhouse instead of the rampant open defecation seen in India and some parts of Africa. We can solve the more complex and exponentially expensive problems of water treatment later. Digging a deep hole gets rid of rampant cholera and incidental exposure. Basically you've got to learn to crawl before you can run a 10k. edi…

"really all they need to figure out first is to talk to each other before we build mobile cell towers for them" innovations drive change drive more innovation. I recommend Hans Rosling's talks. There is no such thing as the "Third World" anymore, they're all on various development trajectories. Don't think e.g. Somalia is typical for Africa.

And what I'm saying is a outhouse /is/ a huge innovation to many places in Western Africa and India. It's largely a cultural problem like rampant littering or pollution. One guy digging an outhouse and shitting in it won't make any more difference than a single person recycling. But if enough people do it they will see a huge improvement in public health and infant mortality.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#70

Post by iancmceachern »

seibelj wrote: post #4

Has anyone tried to make an SV startup-style company sell Japanese-type toilets in America? I think a lot of people would like them

I would think so, I've found Toto toilets to be common in the bay area, especially in the workplaces of startups and tech companies.
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