Toilets are a great example of how technological progress isn't just endless improvement. Sometimes we hit complete dead ends even on the simplest problems.
Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research
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Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research
#52It's the natural progression after Windows 10
Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
One thing I always thought fascinating about Gates was his candid relationship with feces. mindfuplay’s comment reminded me of the famous glass of shit water Gates drank from his Omniprocessor project [0]. But within that 2015 article, Gates mentions a long term plan for seweage and shit[1]: >If we can develop safe, affordable ways to get rid of human waste, we can prevent many of those deaths and help more children…
Western toilets seem to work reasonably well with septic tanks in rural areas. Those don't involve sewer lines or treatment plants.
The issue comes down to cost. As he mentions in the article, the goal is to get to 5 cents a day. Just a basic calculation, a “standard” septic system costs between $1500-4000 to install, and lasts roughly 25 years. Just doing the math on the low end costs brings you to about $0.16 cents a day, 3X the goal Bill Gates is advocating.
Note: this isn’t even taking into account the cost of the toilet itself or any plumbing needed.
Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a couple of Toto toilets in my house. They have washlets that fit most of their products. I have one. I don't mean to overstate this, but it is life-changing. I can't imagine going back to a time when I used only paper and considered that sufficient.
I wanted to get one after visiting Japan, but I realized that it was something that would have to wait until I moved into a place with more than one bathroom, so I could leave a normal toilet in the one guests would use. I just didn’t want to have a conversation about it with every person who visited my home.
The 'tools' are optional though?
Anyway, install a spray hose behind the toilet out of the way. I've used both the hose and the high-tech toilets and I'd pick the former any day.
Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research
#55Has anyone tried to make an SV startup-style company sell Japanese-type toilets in America? I think a lot of people would like them
I have a couple of Toto toilets in my house. They have washlets that fit most of their products. I have one. I don't mean to overstate this, but it is life-changing. I can't imagine going back to a time when I used only paper and considered that sufficient.
I agree 100% about the life changing part. But for a cheap solution, go with a hose attached to the toilet. I'd say I prefer them over the Japanese versions. More versatile and the only thing you really lose is the .. heating?
Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Considering people keep toilets for 5-10 years per toilet on average and the cost of a toilet is much less than the cost of an electrical bidet... It is not a great idea.
I have never actually heard of anyone buying a new toilet. I'm sure it happens, but 5-10 years? My parents' house still has the same toilet it had when they moved in 30-odd years ago, and it works as well as it ever did. Also, I dunno about the electrical ones, but you can get a non-electric bidet for like $25 off Amazon. Maybe a bit more for one with hot and cold hook-ups and a temperature knob. You just run it with…
In general I agree with you regarding the lifetime, the exceptions are areas that goes through expanding housing prices.
For example, good luck finding a bathroom in a central Stockholm flat that is more than 5 years old due to the housing market 2000-2017.
The amount of money spent on bathroom remodels really baffles me. Credit expansion made people throw out new bathrooms, redo them and then revaluate their flat to make the mortgage cover the cost.
A nice bathroom renovation cost about $27k while the net annual salary probably is around $40k.
Due to this, my bet is that the people depending on bathroom remodels are the people that will get squeezed first now when the housing market has turned bearish.
Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you talking about the squat toilets? Because the other smart toilets are very nice, even if you don't use the cleaning options, having a heated seat in the winter is amazing.
Ah, yes. Squat toilets are usually called "Japanese style toilets" so that got me confused.
They are also called Turkish or Roman toilets.
Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you talking about the squat toilets? Because the other smart toilets are very nice, even if you don't use the cleaning options, having a heated seat in the winter is amazing.
Ah, yes. Squat toilets are usually called "Japanese style toilets" so that got me confused.
Squat toilets are the best. So much nicer to poop on than your bog-standard porcelain throne. Aside from the pooping benefits, they also keep you limber by forcing you into a deep squat on a regular basis.
Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wanted to get one after visiting Japan, but I realized that it was something that would have to wait until I moved into a place with more than one bathroom, so I could leave a normal toilet in the one guests would use. I just didn’t want to have a conversation about it with every person who visited my home.
The 'tools' are optional though? Anyway, install a spray hose behind the toilet out of the way. I've used both the hose and the high-tech toilets and I'd pick the former any day.
I echo that the toilet hose or (apparently this is the common slang for them) "bum guns" that you see in many Asian restrooms would be pretty cool to retrofit to a Western restroom (they really are more sanitary than the simple paper wipe, MHO). They are indeed pretty cheap. Scanning forums, though, there are two points I see that one would have to consider.
The first seems to be that hoses / sprayers can be little more prone to leaking or, even in proper operation, creating a bit of a spray mess vs a typical Western toilet installation. Most Asian restrooms designed around toilet hoses have floor drains, so the dangers of general flooding and water mess are a lot less. Western bathrooms typically lack full-room floor drains. This point I can honestly see, which is why the built in washlet might have to be the practical solution for many Western bathroom designs unfortunately.
A more "technical" issue is that these toilet hoses may not be "up to Western code" in some countries per a few forum posts. The impression I get is the code violations are more "technicalities" due to Western code not really considering this concept. Forum posts are not what I would consider an authority, but it is enough where I think it would be a good idea to check with a plumber to see if there's any code the sprayers could somehow violate.
Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research
#60TOTO has been researching and improving toilets for many years. I've been to their Toilet museum in Kitakyushu, Japan and it's just amazing the research they put into it, specially in water savings measures. What's missing for them, it's to make them more affordable to everyone.