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Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

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Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#61

Post by function_seven »

astura wrote: post #49
function_seven wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the context of youth leadership development, "Scout" can be trademarked. Just like "Apple"—in the context of computers, phones, etc.—is owned by the Mac and iPhone company. Are there any other organizations that use "Scout" in their name, besides BSA and GSUSA?

Yes, lots. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting

My apologies, I was asking in the context of USA orgs (since that’s where the dispute is occurring). Every other org I’ve seen in the US is called something other than “Scouts”

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#62

Post by crazygringo »

It's strange to me that Girl Scouts were able to have that name in the first place, once Boy Scouts already existed -- there's so much trademark confusion, for a long time I'd always assumed they were two branches of the same org, and trademarks aren't supposed to allow for this kind of confusion.

I totally understand why Girl Scouts doesn't want to allow Boy Scouts to drop "Boy" because it feels unfair (neither should get to claim a more "universal" scouting trademark)... but I also don't understand why Girl Scouts were allowed to have the name in the first place in 1913 (Boy Scouts started in 1910, and Girl Scouts were originally Girl Guides).

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#63

Post by modzu »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #44
sreyaNotfilc wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I originally thought it was. Then, I realized its Hacker News. Not many jokes float around this area.

Jokes are totes allowed. They just have to be particularly high quality, including civil. No Beavis and Butthead . A lot of humor is only funny if you are cool with being monstrously ugly about specific topics. That type humor tends to not fly here. I'm okay with that.

beavis and butthead is actually a cleverly subversive vehicle for social criticism and a particularly creative and intelligent comedy

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#64

Post by chrischen »

crazygringo wrote: post #62

It's strange to me that Girl Scouts were able to have that name in the first place, once Boy Scouts already existed -- there's so much trademark confusion, for a long time I'd always assumed they were two branches of the same org, and trademarks aren't supposed to allow for this kind of confusion. I totally understand why Girl Scouts doesn't want to allow Boy Scouts to drop "Boy" because it feels unfair (neither shou…

I don’t think girls were originally allowed, so if girls couldn’t be scouts it didn’t seem fair.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#65

Post by EpicEng »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #59
AuthorizedCust wrote: post #50

I am the Cubmaster of a large Cub Scout pack (>150 kids). Admitting girls has been a non-issue, except to local Girl Scouts USA activists (long story, and it wasn't pretty). Girls have always been in Boy Scouts: sisters have ALWAYS been coming to meetings. Now they get to earn badges, too. My son still picks boogers and giggles at farts even with girls around. This lawsuit is but the latest in GSUSA's petty-ness. I d…

> Girls have always been in Boy Scouts. Now they get to earn badges, too. Yes, and before 1920, women were frequently allowed into statehouses. They just didn't get to vote. Turns out that was a pretty important distinction.

Yes, those two things are pretty much on the same level.

The OP was speaking in regards to how boys act around girls, not making a defense of any policy.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#66

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

mdasen wrote: post #34

It's amazing how times change. Just a few years ago, the Boy Scouts wouldn't allow gay kids to join (2013) and wouldn't allow gay leaders (2015). Back then, people were applauding the Girl Scouts for their progressive stance on gay rights and transgender youths. Today, the Boy Scouts are leaning into a more gender-neutral membership. Ultimately, I think the Girl Scouts are worried about their membership. If Scouts BS…

I also came here with a similar sentiment that I was expecting would be echoed by someone else in this thread.

As an Eagle Scout who participated in a co-ed Venture Crew, I think it’s a good step forward for the BSA organization. People in the thread have mentioned some possible issues with co-Ed integration, and while it has its issues, I firmly believe on the whole that it’s a net good for the organization.

I won’t speak for the plight of the Girl Scouts organization, who undoubtedly has done a lot of good and has always been the more progressive of the two organizations, but I can at least say that the BSA has done decently well to adapt to the current times given the immense sort of political pressures they have been under over the past 50 years.

I have a lot of value and memories of my time in the Scouts and given the changes they have implemented after various scandals over the years I can confidently say that they are at least interested in fixing long running issues unlike other organizations such as the Catholic Church who are more willing to ostrich-head-in-the-sand away something when nastiness emerges.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#67

Post by metildaa »

Casseres wrote: post #47
kulahan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They specifically chose the name "Scouts BSA" because changing the name from "Boy Scouts of America" would effectively require an act of congress. BSA were given a special legal status WAY beyond what normal copyright law allows, and so a "simple" name change becomes not so "simple" after all, unfortunately. In fact, this copyright law is so powerful, during the court case Wrenn v. BSA from 2008, in which the court f…

Point of Clarification: The program name where youth can earn Eagle is now called Scouts BSA, the organization name still remains Boy Scouts of America. The Boy Scouts of America has allowed girls in their other programs since the 1970s.

Crew and Sea Scouts are thin on the ground, and not available to most kids unlike cub scouts or boy scouts.

IMO the BSA has scared off competent leadership from the local troops, digging the graves of the plethora of troops that have folded. There are a handful of high caliber troops out there today, but most do not have the organizational capability to do the best job possible for our youth.

I speak from the perspective of a gay former patrol leader and life scout, my troop was great and gave me skills I couldn't get anywhere else at that age.

I was (apparently) a positive influence on many of the kids that were in my patrol, but none of the troops in my region besides the one I spent half a decade in has been able to field a coherent presence at Camporee or any of the summer camps. These kids are missing out on opportunities to learn valuble life skills that the local troops used to readily teach.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#68

Post by gonzo »

Casseres wrote: post #47
kulahan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They specifically chose the name "Scouts BSA" because changing the name from "Boy Scouts of America" would effectively require an act of congress. BSA were given a special legal status WAY beyond what normal copyright law allows, and so a "simple" name change becomes not so "simple" after all, unfortunately. In fact, this copyright law is so powerful, during the court case Wrenn v. BSA from 2008, in which the court f…

Point of Clarification: The program name where youth can earn Eagle is now called Scouts BSA, the organization name still remains Boy Scouts of America. The Boy Scouts of America has allowed girls in their other programs since the 1970s.

> The Boy Scouts of America has allowed girls in their other programs since the 1970s.

Only one (Exploring, which became Venturing), really. BSA has four youth programs:

Cub Scouts - for boys and girls from kindergarten through fifth grade. Girls were allowed to join the Cut Scouts program as of October 2017.

Scouting (formerly Boy Scouts) for young men 11 to 18. Young women will be able to join in February 2019.

Venturing - for young men and women ages 14 to 21. Young women were allowed to join starting in 1969. (Venturing was "Exploring" then, and Exploring / "Senior Scouts" started in the 1930s for boys 15 and older.

Sea Scouting - for young men and women ages 14 to 21. Previous to 2016, Sea Scouting was part of Venturing, and previous to that, part of Exploring.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#69

Post by gonzo »

randyrand wrote: post #42
makewavesnotwar wrote: post #36

Nothing about the Boy Scouts is really gender specific, beyond their requirement to be male that's set to be amended in February. I don't understand how "Scouts BSA" is a violation of any trademarks that the Girl Scouts might hold. Especially considering the Girl Scouts came after BSA had already been established. If anything I would say that Girl Scouts are encroaching on the BSA's brand identity by calling themselv…

I don't have a strong opinion either way (I'm an Eagle Scout), but the decision to include girls will fundamentally change Scouting. Guys act differently when around girls. Girls act differently when around guys. This is doubly true for ages 12-17. Whether this is a change for the better or worse is subjective but there is no doubt it is a drastic change. There is benefit to boys interacting with girls. There is bene…

> Guys act differently when around girls. Girls act differently when around guys. This is doubly true for ages 12-17.

Troops won't be co-ed.

Re: Girl Scouts file trademark lawsuit as Boy Scouts plan to rename to Scouts BSA

#70

Post by gonzo »

Smeevy wrote: post #60
Casseres wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's for Cub Scouts. For Scouts BSA, the current plan is to have boy-only troops and girl-only troops. They can share the same troop number, committee, budget, etc, but only the Scoutmaster has to be different. I foresee that changing or troops taking initiative and organizing differently unofficially, but that's the current plan.

I really hope so. Venturing Crews and Sea Scouts, both of which are part of BSA, have been co-ed for a long time. My initial research was not particularly fruitful, but I think that they've been that way since their respective inceptions. There's also no gender-specific leadership or structure. My son just switched to Sea Scouts after attaining his Eagle Scout rank and my daughter just started Cub Scouts as a Tiger.…

> Venturing Crews and Sea Scouts, both of which are part of BSA, have been co-ed for a long time. My initial research was not particularly fruitful, but I think that they've been that way since their respective inceptions.

Venturing Crews and Sea Scouts were both part of Exploring in 1969 when the program went co-ed.

> There's also no gender-specific leadership or structure.

There are, actually. Quoting the current edition of the Guide to Safe Scouting:

"Two registered adult leaders 21 years of age or over are required at all Scouting activities, including meetings. There must be a registered female adult leader over 21 in every unit serving females. A registered female adult leader over 21 must be present for any activity involving female youth."

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