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Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

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Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#121
post #98
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are a member of the EU, a trade union that evolved into much more. They can choose to leave and also lose all their tech HQs that are only located there because Ireland is part of the EU.

That's simply false. The current EU membership terms don't grant it oversight of member state corporate tax rates.

But it does provide for rather strict limits on subsidies, and a subsidy is indistinguishable (or, actually, defined as, among other things) making one-off tax deals with individual companies.

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#122
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's not just internal. The EU allows for free cross boarder trade and movement of assets within the EU. Having a lower corporate tax rate in one country means businesses operating in the EU put their revenue through there. It's an automatic incentive. There are rules here because otherwise it would be a race to the bottom. Each country wants Amazon, Google, etc for their employees' income tax. The whole EU l…

Then let's have a race to the bottom. Some people seem to assume that high corporate income tax rates are a good thing, but there's really no proof of that. We would all be better off if every country eliminated corporate income taxes entirely, and made the change revenue neutral by increasing taxes on high income investors and employees. This would encourage economic growth by eliminating resources wasted on tax acc…

Urgh, No?

Zero Corporation Tax allows multinationals to make huge profits and just chuck the money back home, even if that's outside the Union. Yeah, they're probably paying tax on it somewhere, but it's not taxed in the place it was earned. That's the problem here. Countries are losing cash and tax revenue to this.

Your trickle-down economics is similarly unproven.

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#123
post #82

As a french, seing french government officials trying to impose their knee-jerk « let’s tax it » reaction to any kind of problem makes me absolutely sick. They’re just a bunch of jealous incompetent insufferable pompous politicians than don’t understand a thing about the private sector and so instead of trying to fix the numerous reason why we don’t have any competitor to google / facebook etc ( such as our best engi…

I'm from the US. You could just replace France with the name of my state in your comment and it would hold. We don't even have scooters yet and they're talking about passing regulation in case it becomes a thing. Some places are really used to using regulation to (attempt to) solve problems and when you've been swinging a hammer for the past several centuries it doesn't really matter whether the nails you think you're hitting are bolts because you forgot how to turn a wrench long ago.

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#124
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a sovereign state even need permission from others about purely internal matters such as corporate income tax rates?

Because it's not just internal. The EU allows for free cross boarder trade and movement of assets within the EU. Having a lower corporate tax rate in one country means businesses operating in the EU put their revenue through there. It's an automatic incentive. There are rules here because otherwise it would be a race to the bottom. Each country wants Amazon, Google, etc for their employees' income tax. The whole EU l…

>> Having a lower corporate tax rate in one country means businesses operating in the EU put their revenue through there

I'm not sure this is true any more, at least not everywhere

"Amazon has become the first technology company to abandon controversial corporate structures that divert sales and profits away from UK in the face of a clampdown imposed by George Osborne.

From the start of [May 2015] the online retailer has started booking its sales through the UK, meaning resulting profits will be taxed by HMRC [the UK tax authority]. The group made $8.3bn (£5.3bn) of worldwide sales from British online shoppers but for 11 years all these internet transactions have been booked in Luxembourg."

source: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/may/23/amazon-to...

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#125
post #3

When one country can hold up the progress of the entire 27 member bloc because of their own self-interests the project looks very weak.

Oh you mean the EU is not an authoritarian nightmare that just imposes their will on unsuspecting member states as some are lead to believe?

Ask the Greeks how it's working out for them

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> What usually happens is a bundling of issues until you get an overall package that's net positive for everyone. That sounds too good to be true, can you give examples?

It's just basic horse-trading. A somewhat extreme yet very basic example would "all of the law" (for some specific jurisdiction). Assuming this isn't North Korea, you will probably find an overwhelming majority considering the status quo to be better than completely lawless anarchy, even though every single individual can probably point at some individual law that they would rather abolish. International trade agreem…

>> It's just basic horse-trading

I understand it's all about horse-trading, it's the meaning of the word "everyone" in the claim "a net positive for everyone" that I question.

My understanding of European Union horse-trading is that it's all about "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours". This might well be good for most if not all EU politicians and bureaucrats, it's patently not going to be a net positive for every single citizen.

Example: the travelling circus that is the EU Parliament moving back and forth between BRU and SXB.

"The campaign to end the European parliament's expensive monthly commute to Strasbourg received a boost yesterday when a European commissioner criticised it as a sign of "insanity". Margot Wallstrom, a commission vice-president, said: "Something that was once a very positive symbol of the European Union, reuniting France and Germany, has now become a negative symbol - of wasting money, bureaucracy and the insanity of the Brussels institutions."[0]

"though MEPs have voted to scrap a second parliament, the French government has the power to block any such move [..] It is perhaps the most outlandish of the European Union’s excesses; a £130 million travelling circus that once a month sees the European Parliament decamp from Belgium to France.

Over the course of the weekend, some 2,500 plastic trunks will be loaded on to five lorries and driven almost 300 miles from Brussels to Strasbourg.

On Monday, about 1,000 politicians, officials and translators will then make the same journey on two specially chartered trains hired at taxpayers’ expense."[1]

sources: [0]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/sep/05/eu.politics

[1]https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10565686/T...

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please help me understand why is it okay to tax people on income but not corporations?

The best analogy is that taxing corporations on revenue would be like taxing you based on the # of hours you work, irrespective of your wage rate. Folks that work low-wage or volunteer jobs would suddenly have negative income. The only viable jobs left would be bankers and software developers.

[deleted]

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#128
post #82

As a french, seing french government officials trying to impose their knee-jerk « let’s tax it » reaction to any kind of problem makes me absolutely sick. They’re just a bunch of jealous incompetent insufferable pompous politicians than don’t understand a thing about the private sector and so instead of trying to fix the numerous reason why we don’t have any competitor to google / facebook etc ( such as our best engi…

I mean this is a tax problem first and foremost isn't it? The problem being that it's hard for countries to enforce regulations in a virtualized, globalized economy. It's true that it's not just about tax, you also have issues regarding what is and isn't legal in a given country (nazi apology is illegal in France for instance, but good luck enforcing that on the web. Similarly the super harsh "no nudity" rule on american websites is often seen as abusive over here for instance). I mean you seem to agree on that point yourself so it seems that they're not completely wrong to try and fix that.

>They’re just a bunch of jealous incompetent insufferable pompous politicians than don’t understand a thing about the private sector

Talking about knee-jerk reactions.

I strongly dislike this type of empty populist diatribe, that's how we give up on democracy and end up with incompetent fools at the government, just out of spite. Screaming "tous pourris" is not improving anything and is frankly insulting for the many elected officials who are genuinely trying to improve things. Regardless of what they did or didn't do there would be people like you who scream bloody outrage because they're obviously stupid people who understand nothing about nothing. Meanwhile you're not the one trying to balance the budget of a country within the EU.

>let’s fix the tax heavens in Europe then

And how do you propose we do that? Have Le Maire go to the various tax heavens (which in this particular instance would have to include Ireland) and tell them to tax more? How many bottles of Bordeaux would he have to bring to seal the deal?

Having a uniform tax code across the EU would be awesome but it's not like we're anywhere close to something like that.

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#129
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a French, I totally support this tax. It's easier and more expedient to do it this way than to reform the taxation policies of every European countries. Also, why is it wrong to tax the income of corporations?

i meant revenue (which i think you'll understand why it's a problem if you've ever had to pay any corporate tax in your life).

[deleted]

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations aren't consumers, so corporation tax is passed on: to customers, employees, or shareholders. Levying taxes via corporations disguises the true level of taxation.

Depends, when the corporation is a multinational, then they can evade local taxes by various tricks and send all the profits outside the country. Thus it is necessary to close this loophole, to keep the tax money in the source country.

In that case the economic efficient form of taxation is an expatriation tax.
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