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How hustle culture took over advertising

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Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#211

Post by anigbrowl »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #31
balthasar wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The employees still deserve to be respected and allowed to live normal lives outside of this corporate "hustler culture."

Show me on this doll of the org chart where the responsibility was abdicated. If you're a summer intern, sure, you can go home and feel good about getting extra credit. If you're the CEO who pushes dark patterns and chooses to sacrifice security for profit, you should toss-and-turn at night. But at which point can we say, "you, the person who knowingly implemented this piece of shit pattern that enables malware to be…

If you're the person without whom the project can't go ahead or will suffer a major inconvenience (at worst, filling your position with someone else) then you get part of the collective responsibility.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#213

Post by Celarnor »

dceddia wrote: post #189
Celarnor wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're writing a web application, shouldnt you take care to make sure its secure and well written? Just because nobody had to pick hair out of a windshield doesnt mean a hacked webapp doesnt ruin just as many lives. No. In fact, where I work (massive multistore ecommerce), this attitude is actively discouraged. They don't want developers spending valuable time worrying about what a malicious actor would do or ho…

> In the SaaS & ecommerce landscape, being beaten to market or having a competitor that can iterate faster than you means you're dead. I understand how common this sentiment is, and maybe in some markets it really is true, but for the most part I just don't buy it that SaaS and eCommerce are zero-sum games. I'm going against the grain here, but there are a lot of counterexamples -- look at all the time tracking apps,…

> I understand how common this sentiment is, and maybe in some markets it really is true, but for the most part I just don't buy it that SaaS and eCommerce are zero-sum games.

I don't disagree with you, but it is shareholders & executives that determine how developer time is to be spent, not developers.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#214

Post by eeZah7Ux »

rnd0 wrote: post #177
why_only_15 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you give an example of this - a society with a dictatorship that endeavors to give people artificial work?

Stalin's five year plans, Pol Pot and Moa's Cultural revolution immediately spring to mind. The ancient Roman practice of having Soldiers work on construction projects (eg Hadrian's Wall) between battles is a similar idea (though to keep them from looting, not plotting revolution).

As well as fascism in Italy and nazism.

They all disliked unemployed people and often forced them into work or in the military, loathed artists and writers that were able to work independently. They glorified "work for work's sake".

Created work artificially through gargantuan public works, bureaucracy and... war - the ultimate instrument to keep people busy and give them a common purpose.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#215

Post by ChuckMcM »

rabidrat wrote: post #199
dwaltrip wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society is crumbling...? I'm pretty sure the data doesn't back that up. We face many problems, to be sure, but this is nothing new.

It doesn't matter what the data says, the feeling that our society is crumbling is palpable, and that is what drives this overwork. People my age (40s) and younger do not believe that our institutions will be able to support us in our old age and retirement. We do not even believe that the earth's ecosystems will be able to support us (as a group) then. In 30 years, we as individuals better have resources accumulated…

This is a really interesting statement:

It doesn't matter what the data says, the feeling that our society is crumbling is palpable, and that is what drives this overwork.

There is an interesting conflict of interest buried in there, "someone" who is benefiting from your work figures out that if you "believe" that society is crumbling, you will work harder (which generates them more benefit), and so they arrange it so that in spite of the data to the contrary you are left feeling that society is crumbling.

Even the most intelligent and rational person will take action against their own self interest if they believe that such action is necessary. You can see that principle in action all too often today as people get caught up in a conspiracy theory and then decide to take action on their own.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#216

Post by BLKNSLVR »

lanewinfield wrote: post #73
esotericn wrote: post #2

So, this is the industry that: - puts flashing colored boxes in front of our faces at any possible opportunity - requires us to click through multiple popups to access almost any for-profit website - has normalized the act of wasting human life at a mass scale by injecting multi-minute time-wasting sessions in activities "How hustle culture took over"? It's a hustle by default. I'd call it a swindle.

Hatred of advertising at a larger scale, nice. How are those people on said websites (and almost any other medium) supposed to make money?

>Hatred of advertising at a larger scale, nice

The problem is that the perception of the advertising industry at a larger scale is that it's a blood sucking industry with no thought for anything other than taking the attention of everyone away from what they were looking for and towards what the industry has been paid to help sell.

It's ironic, I think, that the advertising industry is perceived so badly.

How could the advertising industry market itself? "Our knowledge of psychologically attacking the human mind is second-only to the CIA, but we're catching up!"

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#217

Post by Nasrudith »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #127
petra wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like we have a misunderstanding. for me: Autonomy = the level of freedom of choosing your own actions , under the constraint that your goal must be met. Meaning = knowing your work has some positive value, which means you can tell yourself(maybe subconsciously) that you are useful, which increases your motivation. Example : a doctor that is forced to use an expert-system to guide him, would feel a lot less aut…

You also need autonomy to choose your own meaning. > Example : a doctor that is forced to use an expert-system to guide him, would feel a lot less autonomy,even though he may understand that he's more useful to his patients - i.e. ,a lot of meaning. Then why would they be "forced"? Either it makes their work easier/better or it doesn't, where does the force come in?

Insurance rates for one or if it is sufficient enough not doing so being malpractice.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#218

Post by walshemj »

esotericn wrote: post #71
apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

I don't see this as being unique to the US. It's pretty similar in London (UK), for example. Here, it's about the fact that most people are hilariously, almost comically underpaid. The cheapest 1 bedroom flat I can find within an hour of the centre is going to be in the ballpark of 200K. So if you don't have established wealth, or earn at least 50K (4x mortgage), you're a prole. Unsurprisingly, people don't want to b…

Well UK advertising and publishing have relied on being able to recruit cheaply the best Oxbridge firsts for decades.

Of course now the industry is digital there are a lot of people out of water and don't really get the internet an di am talking about people decades younger than me.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#219

Post by mcculley »

zamber wrote: post #203
rabidrat wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter what the data says, the feeling that our society is crumbling is palpable, and that is what drives this overwork. People my age (40s) and younger do not believe that our institutions will be able to support us in our old age and retirement. We do not even believe that the earth's ecosystems will be able to support us (as a group) then. In 30 years, we as individuals better have resources accumulated…

I'm waiting for a massive exodus of US citizens to Europe for healthcare. Also the perceived society crumbling is self-imposed. Raging culture wars, terrorism as an excuse for totalitarian paranoia, freely accessible firearms, school shootings, obesity epidemic, trade tariffs, monopolistic corporations lobbying for laws, ecological disasters. Frankly, I'm happy with my European backwater if the cost of getting off we…

It's not just healthcare. I often get into discussions about our ridiculous gun situation. Often, I am told by advocates for the status quo that if I don't like it, I should leave. Maybe I will take that advice. What happens to a community when all of the people who want to improve it who have the means to emigrate give up and leave?

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#220

Post by analog31 »

apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

Americans live with the awareness of two issues. First, we are one crisis away from poverty unless we can build up our own safety net in the form of wealth. Second, the most successful people tend to have grown up in households where they could count on a family safety net. The mere presence of wealth is beneficial to our children by letting them take more risks.

This drives people who are not independently wealthy, to try and build that wealth in excess of what they might actually need for survival, and even for a happy life.

Is it good for productivity? I measure my productivity in terms of what I produce for my family.

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