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As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

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Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#141

This follows a series of validation studies (incl. e.g. http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797617741719 ) from this year especially. The results seem to consistently show the same 'paradoxical' outcome. J. Peterson came to my campus last week and I think he mentioned this one specific study, and also noted several other ones, which brought the one I linked to my attention. It really isn't the only one, a…

Is Jordan Peterson any better in person than he seems in his book? I read it after a friend recommended it and he seemed completely insufferable and possibly mildly autistic based on what seemed like a real lack of understanding of the internal lives of others. Lots of people seem to like him, but I can't bring myself to watch him speak in person since everything I see just traversing the internet is framed as him "d…

His book is a "self help" book. If you don't need help (or don't think you do), then yea, you might not like it...

What I did find interesting were his interviews on the "joe rogan experience". There are three of them on youtube, here is the newest one: https://youtu.be/9Xc7DN-noAc

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#142
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you not get the memo? All social constructs are biological. All behaviour has a biological underpinning, how could it be otherwise?

Similar to the relation between hardware and software?

Am writing some verilog at the moment, so maybe...

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#143

I wonder how it adjusts for culturally pushed gender differences. Women could have the same opportunities as men but be expected to have different tastes, be subjected to different experiences growing up, etc. which could affect their choices in latter life.

I don't think it should need to adjust as this is what it's trying to observe, it's specifically taking into account the levels of social equality. If cultural 'pushing' played a bigger part, you'd expect the differences to be greater in less egalitarian countries, but instead we see the opposite.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#144
post #48

I wonder how it adjusts for culturally pushed gender differences. Women could have the same opportunities as men but be expected to have different tastes, be subjected to different experiences growing up, etc. which could affect their choices in latter life.

I don't understand why people care so much whether preferences are biological or cultural. (Well, I understand it if we assume they are being dishonest, so assuming that something is not biological allows them to claim that it can be changed to whatever they think is morally superior. The debate whether being gay is cultural is a good example.) If I am given a true freedom to choose, to decide according to my prefere…

Because if it is purely cultural then aiming for 50/50 gender parity across all industries is a reasonable goal.

If it is not, it is a 'terrible', 'terrible' idea to approach gender equality from that angle.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#145

This follows a series of validation studies (incl. e.g. http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797617741719 ) from this year especially. The results seem to consistently show the same 'paradoxical' outcome. J. Peterson came to my campus last week and I think he mentioned this one specific study, and also noted several other ones, which brought the one I linked to my attention. It really isn't the only one, a…

Is Jordan Peterson any better in person than he seems in his book? I read it after a friend recommended it and he seemed completely insufferable and possibly mildly autistic based on what seemed like a real lack of understanding of the internal lives of others. Lots of people seem to like him, but I can't bring myself to watch him speak in person since everything I see just traversing the internet is framed as him "d…

Peterson in person is Peterson in his lectures, see comments below. Make up your mind yourself, and try to understand why people like and hate him both ways. He's a pretty compassionate guy as far as I can tell, he just can't tolerate people who aren't willing to have proper discourse with him.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#146
post #39

I wonder how it adjusts for culturally pushed gender differences. Women could have the same opportunities as men but be expected to have different tastes, be subjected to different experiences growing up, etc. which could affect their choices in latter life.

Yeah this is the part I don't see the clear logic in. I mean how much of a persons preferences are biological vs taught/environmental behaviour. I would accept the results straight up if it's all because of biological reasons but to me it's not that clear. Imagine if we brought up women to be amazon warriors, of course they would have different preferences compared to women today no? You often pick a career after wha…

It seems pretty obvious to me that gender differences are due to a mix of cultural pressures and biology. Here's a study that indicates some biological origin, for example: https://www.psypost.org/2017/12/study-finds-robust-sex-diffe...

It weirds me out to find people who believe that these preferences are solely due to cultural pressure. It reeks of ideological blindness to me.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#147
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think it's strange that it's seen as a 'paradoxical' outcome? The modern trend of gender-associated differences being primarily attributed to cultural influences seem unscientific at best and politically motivated at worst, especially when for many years we've had well-documented differences in the male and female brains that are clearly evident in brain-imaging studies. All else being equal, of course ther…

>well-documented differences in the male and female brains that are clearly evident in brain-imaging studies. Has there been any robust evidence that brain images correspond to any real world capability differences? An AMD and Intel cpu look very different under an xray too, but they run the same software at pretty much the same specs.

Well, the difference for the CPU analogy might be that we know exactly what to have them do, and they do exactly that (sans bugs, hah). Brains, whether it's architectural or hormonal, have many other factors that influence their workings, and aren't necessarily deterministically programmable as processors are.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Jordan Peterson any better in person than he seems in his book? I read it after a friend recommended it and he seemed completely insufferable and possibly mildly autistic based on what seemed like a real lack of understanding of the internal lives of others. Lots of people seem to like him, but I can't bring myself to watch him speak in person since everything I see just traversing the internet is framed as him "d…

Peterson in person is Peterson in his lectures, see comments below. Make up your mind yourself, and try to understand why people like and hate him both ways. He's a pretty compassionate guy as far as I can tell, he just can't tolerate people who aren't willing to have proper discourse with him.

> he just can't tolerate people who aren't willing to have proper discourse with him

why would anyone? if it's not a discussion it's a battle of ideologies and someone (them/they) have to win

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#149
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not mean to imply that no American women swear. But, I never expected that swearing would be man-repellent nor was told anything of the sort. > Also, everything I have read and experienced suggests that other women are a huge source of social pressure on female behavior, possibly far more than male sexual predilections. It is kind of interesting that whenever general "society expects women x" many many people t…

> I never expected that swearing would be man-repellent nor was told anything of the sort. It's not just me. It's unusual to see a couple where one swears and the other doesn't. Swearing will also exclude one from various social, business, and political circles, and they'll never tell you why. They may not even consciously know themselves.

I did not downvoted you. Some people mind swearing, others don't, yet others mind it sometimes (me) and rules of attraction are subjective.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#150
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It honestly changes the way we work with something. Biological differences aren't things we can easily change right now. Skin color or the shape of one's fingernails or the length of one's legs. Some biological things have real world things that go with it. Skin color, for example, could put you at greater risk of skin cancer or a greater risk of low vitamin D. One simply accepts and lives with these things and works…

I understand, of course, that it makes the difference when you want to change things. But my main question is, why do you want to change things, even in case where everybody is free to choose? I am not really sure I buy into "treating boys and girls the same" either. I think what's more important is to give them options (perhaps against their will, to get them outside the comfort zone). It seems to me that schools al…

> I think what's more important is to give them options (perhaps against their will, to get them outside the comfort zone)

How do you justify the against their will part with your earlier sentiment that you don't understand why people care if its biology or cultural.

If its biological, forcing them outside of their biological comfort zone seems particularly cruel.

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