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As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

science.sciencemag.org

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Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#41

Post by nisuni »

starbeast wrote: post #6
seagullz wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, the preferential difference in expressing themselves implies that genders are not identical after all, an idea that doesn't get treated as a truism.

I don't know anyone pushing the notion that genders are or should be identical.

The blank slate theory is one of the standard assumptions in sociology. From there, it follows that all differences are societal.

So, to reply to your renark: many people in the social sciences think genders are equal at birth, and many other people think that this alleged equality should be somehow preserved by society.

Luckily, data from life sciences seems to contradict this construction.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#42

Post by jexah »

ramblerman wrote: post #34
ddingus wrote: post #2

This seems like non-news to me. Really, what we are discussing here is lowering of inhibition. As we see equality better represented out there, women should feel less inhibited, in terms of role compliance to get opportunity, and with that, should be expressing themselves through work, as they would any other thing they are doing.

You are doing a disservice by sweeping this under the rug as common sense. We live in a political climate where people are looking at the tech industry and especially FANG companies with a microscope and unless they see 50/50 representation they feel there must be inequality at work. James Damore was fired for highlighting this very fact.

Fair point.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#43

Post by Kaveren »

dandare wrote: post #32

Can someone with an access to the article provide more information on the direction in which the "willingness to take risks, patience, altruism, positive and negative reciprocity, and trust" is associated with gender?

> "Women tended to be more prosocial and less negatively reciprocal than men, with differences in standard deviations of 0.106 for altruism (P The context of this quote and the tables are provided by the other commenter.

[0] "(26)" in the quote refers to a footnote.

Edit: Fixed hyphen space in quote.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#44

Post by starbeast »

Yetanfou wrote: post #22
starbeast wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know anyone pushing the notion that genders are or should be identical.

Do you mean you don't know anyone personally who tries to push this idea? If so, neither do I. If, on the other hand, you mean you have not heard of anyone pushing this idea you have not visited a university, heard a political discussion, read a newspaper, turned on a (modern equivalent of a) radio or (modern equivalent of a) television. It might also be that you live in a country which has thus far been freed of thi…

I have heard plenty of call for equal treatment and calling for appreciation of personal perception, range of experiences, etc.

If someone was arguing that genders are identical, rather than making an argument about societal treatment of people by others, which is what the actual argument seems largely to be about, they'd be effectively arguing that gender doesn't exist.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#45

Post by cjslep »

skookumchuck wrote: post #40
watwut wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They want to be who they believe they should be, which, at least based on the 6 metrics I see in the paper, seems to be generally nicer people. My impression is that there is a lot more social pressure on women to be nice in western countries and especially united states. To the point that expectation is sometimes that women dont swear etc. I dont think I encountered that in Slavic countries that much despite them…

> expectation is sometimes that women dont swear etc. FWIW, a woman swearing definitely lowers her attractiveness, at least to me, by quite a bit.

My wife knows how to tell a story and use just a few curse words, if the company is right, to really deliver an impactful, humanizing, and relatable event. It's part of why I love her.

Different strokes for different folks.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#46

Post by pentae »

ramblerman wrote: post #34
ddingus wrote: post #2

This seems like non-news to me. Really, what we are discussing here is lowering of inhibition. As we see equality better represented out there, women should feel less inhibited, in terms of role compliance to get opportunity, and with that, should be expressing themselves through work, as they would any other thing they are doing.

You are doing a disservice by sweeping this under the rug as common sense. We live in a political climate where people are looking at the tech industry and especially FANG companies with a microscope and unless they see 50/50 representation they feel there must be inequality at work. James Damore was fired for highlighting this very fact.

Thank you

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#47

Post by Tomminn »

The strongest correlations seem related to the wealth of the country.

One reading of this finding is that more effort is directed toward gender performance in rich countries.

This could be due to a number of factors. I wouldn't discount the difference in the quantity of media consumed by both countries.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#48

Post by js8 »

torben-friis wrote: post #37

I wonder how it adjusts for culturally pushed gender differences. Women could have the same opportunities as men but be expected to have different tastes, be subjected to different experiences growing up, etc. which could affect their choices in latter life.

I don't understand why people care so much whether preferences are biological or cultural. (Well, I understand it if we assume they are being dishonest, so assuming that something is not biological allows them to claim that it can be changed to whatever they think is morally superior. The debate whether being gay is cultural is a good example.)

If I am given a true freedom to choose, to decide according to my preferences, what does it matter what is the reason for these preferences? What does it matter, how did I acquire my tastes? They are MY tastes.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#49

Post by cm2187 »

ddingus wrote: post #2

This seems like non-news to me. Really, what we are discussing here is lowering of inhibition. As we see equality better represented out there, women should feel less inhibited, in terms of role compliance to get opportunity, and with that, should be expressing themselves through work, as they would any other thing they are doing.

Lowering inhibition is one thing, but the measure of success used everywhere is equality of outcome, and that’s the problem.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#50

Post by grenoire »

torben-friis wrote: post #37

I wonder how it adjusts for culturally pushed gender differences. Women could have the same opportunities as men but be expected to have different tastes, be subjected to different experiences growing up, etc. which could affect their choices in latter life.

Although those factors in themselves are not accounted for, the cultural differences in cross-country effects are extensively documented. The supplement material is available for free at http://science.sciencemag.org/content/suppl/2018/10/17/362.6...
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