Equality of opportunities and equality of outcomes are incompatible as long as the source groups differ in any meaningful way, even "just" in preferences, which is a very big factor in choice of profession. In order to get equality of outcomes, you would need to enforce inequality of opportunities.
As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men
21–30 of 536 posts
Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yet, the preferential difference in expressing themselves implies that genders are not identical after all, an idea that doesn't get treated as a truism.
I don't know anyone pushing the notion that genders are or should be identical.
Do you mean you don't know anyone personally who tries to push this idea? If so, neither do I. If, on the other hand, you mean you have not heard of anyone pushing this idea you have not visited a university, heard a political discussion, read a newspaper, turned on a (modern equivalent of a) radio or (modern equivalent of a) television. It might also be that you live in a country which has thus far been freed of this nonsense in which case I can only congratulate you and urge you to make sure it never gets a foothold. Let men be men, women be women and let them decide for themselves how they want to be, act, think and do without any ideologues trying to steer them this or that way. Let boys be boys and girls be girls without telling them they make the wrong choices if they want to engage in 'gender-stereotypical' play.
Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your remarks on the sex thing don't actually fit with what I've read from (people I understand to be) actual scientists specializing in this stuff, which basically boils down to "You know that binary male-female classification? We basically made that up and nature didn't ask our opinion, kind of like how the platypus fails to conveniently fit our made up categories for animals because our made up categories and menta…
I am not sure how you got a binary classification system out of my position. I was fairly sure I was saying that there isn't one.
You listed 5 categories, 4 of which are defined in relation to the well known binary classification. Intersex and asexual are well understood variations of that classification system.
In a nutshell, I'm saying your 5th scientific category of "make shit up" would be more accurate for a broader subset than your framing would tend to suggest.
It's a little like the concept of Newtonian gravity, which was made obsolete by Einstein's Theory of Relativity, yet we still use mathematical formula based on that for calculations here on earth because it's sufficient to that scenario and less work. Theory of Relativity calculations matter for interplanetary travel. Using Newtonian formulae would get you very off course in a basically deadly fashion.
For many situations, male and female are broadly sufficient mental models. Where they aren't, they can be actively harmful. But the fact that higher levels of accuracy are frequently not needed doesn't mean they are actually true anymore than using Newtonian math here on earth makes Newtonian physics not obsolete in a post Einstein world.
Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did you not get the memo? All social constructs are biological. All behaviour has a biological underpinning, how could it be otherwise?
I don't disagree with you at all. There are a huge amount of people who do disagree with you, though. You just commented that you didn't know anyone pushing such a narrative. And that surprised me because it's everywhere. So I thought I'd just flesh out that dominant point of view so that you could identify it in the society around you. What I think this study shows (and its not the first) is that it debunks the noti…
I generally take the view that any time you are dealing with a biological system, whether it be a single cell or the global economy, should you find yourself in a quandary where you are wondering if something is caused by this thing or that thing (nature/nurture being the classic), the answer is nearly always both, plus a whole bunch of some other stuff you hadn't even begun to consider. Biology is horrendously complex and messy, and anything built on biology is even messier.
Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am not sure how you got a binary classification system out of my position. I was fairly sure I was saying that there isn't one.
You listed 5 categories, 4 of which are defined in relation to the well known binary classification. Intersex and asexual are well understood variations of that classification system. In a nutshell, I'm saying your 5th scientific category of "make shit up" would be more accurate for a broader subset than your framing would tend to suggest. It's a little like the concept of Newtonian gravity, which was made obsolete b…
>In a nutshell, I'm saying your 5th scientific category of "make shit up" would be more accurate for a broader subset than your framing would tend to suggest.
I get you, I think I may have put my point across fairly badly in that case.
Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
You listed 5 categories, 4 of which are defined in relation to the well known binary classification. Intersex and asexual are well understood variations of that classification system. In a nutshell, I'm saying your 5th scientific category of "make shit up" would be more accurate for a broader subset than your framing would tend to suggest. It's a little like the concept of Newtonian gravity, which was made obsolete b…
>In a nutshell, I'm saying your 5th scientific category of "make shit up" would be more accurate for a broader subset than your framing would tend to suggest. I get you, I think I may have put my point across fairly badly in that case.
Eh, not a big deal. It's a topic full of landmines and communication challenges.
Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men
#27aka the more women differ from men, the more they have equal opportunities.
But it's weird, where are all the correlation/causation and "soft science" comments? I guess it's still early.
Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know anyone pushing the notion that genders are or should be identical.
Do you mean you don't know anyone personally who tries to push this idea? If so, neither do I. If, on the other hand, you mean you have not heard of anyone pushing this idea you have not visited a university, heard a political discussion, read a newspaper, turned on a (modern equivalent of a) radio or (modern equivalent of a) television. It might also be that you live in a country which has thus far been freed of thi…
I don’t strictly disagree with anything you said, it all seems sensible, and yet it also seems quite narrow and I long for you to also allow small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri to be small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri...
Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you mean you don't know anyone personally who tries to push this idea? If so, neither do I. If, on the other hand, you mean you have not heard of anyone pushing this idea you have not visited a university, heard a political discussion, read a newspaper, turned on a (modern equivalent of a) radio or (modern equivalent of a) television. It might also be that you live in a country which has thus far been freed of thi…
I don’t strictly disagree with anything you said, it all seems sensible, and yet it also seems quite narrow and I long for you to also allow small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri to be small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri...
If they're actually small, actually furry, and actually from Alpha Centauri...
Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you mean you don't know anyone personally who tries to push this idea? If so, neither do I. If, on the other hand, you mean you have not heard of anyone pushing this idea you have not visited a university, heard a political discussion, read a newspaper, turned on a (modern equivalent of a) radio or (modern equivalent of a) television. It might also be that you live in a country which has thus far been freed of thi…
I don’t strictly disagree with anything you said, it all seems sensible, and yet it also seems quite narrow and I long for you to also allow small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri to be small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri...
We used to have wooden spaceships and iron small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.
Now we have iron spaceships and wooden small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.