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Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

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Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#71

Post by slothtrop »

happytoexplain wrote: post #57
sharpneli wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The project is fine, but just don't present it at Blizzcon? Precisely this. It's not that feeble because you must remember what Blizzcon is. Know your audience. Blizzcon audience has paid $199 to get in. They are quite hard core PC gamers. If your main show for them is something they are not interested of course they are gonna be unhappy. If Blizzard wants to change Blizzcon they should tell the audience that "Blizz…

You're making a point that keeps being brought up about expectations, which is valid and I get it, but I think the point was not that people should not rightfully criticize Blizzard for that, but rather that the absolute outrage seems ridiculous. This sort of over-the-top accusative outrage is a sad fixture in modern culture, but it seems bizarrely more common in video game news than elsewhere.

> absolute outrage seems ridiculous

Well, absolute outrage is not absolute. This isn't something that's accurately metered. As with everything in outrage culture, the media tells us the outrage is palpable and we simply accept it. Users voicing their displeasure on reddit / twitter / youtube in any capacity is all it takes for the rags to twist this into an apocalyptic, mouth-frothing rage machine. It's a complete joke. The barrier to typing a few words for the world to see is paper thin. Displeasure isn't rage.

It's easy to manipulate discourse this way because anything can be construed as utter outrage.

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#72

Post by BoiledCabbage »

jakebasile wrote: post #18
pcwalton wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And people wonder how the hell do they get away with p2w and gambling mechanics in games. Because that business model is profitable, and entertainment is a business like any other. If you don't like it, you are free not to play it. Besides some potential for gambling addiction (about which state lotteries are a far more important target for your ire if that is your concern), mobile games produce no externalities wh…

You're mystified by it because you probably aren't a dedicated gamer. To lots of people, including myself, gaming is a huge part of their identity and lifestyle. It's a hobby like any other such as repairing old cars, painting, craft beer, etc. The "but climate change" is just whataboutism because gaming isn't important to you, so why aren't people paying more attention to what is important to you. edit to clarify: T…

> It's a hobby like any other such as repairing old cars, painting, craft beer, etc.

And yet you don't see people who follow those hobbies throwing an absolute fit like gamers are now doing continuously.

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#73

Post by philipov »

threatofrain wrote: post #65
zaphar wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, you are harsh. They replicated the control scheme from another game because it was a good control scheme. Sort of like how most PC games all use Q,W,E,S for movement. You don't know what the monetization scheme will be but you are sure it will use dark patterns to drain peoples wallets. You apparently didn't read the article to see what the similar GUI patterns they replicated were but you are certain it's just…

I do feel that the world of mobile games is tarnished in reputation for good reason, and that backlash against mobile games is primarily from parents, because the population they've been targeting has been very young kids. In some ways it also tarnishes the Android and Apple brand, which is why I think Google reacted with multi-accounts device sharing and YouTube kids. I wonder how much mobile gaming revenue is becau…

Their statements don't make a good case for them doing more than following the money, and part of the reason for the outrage. The outrage is itself a move played to signal this. People talk about how capitalism is driven by signals from the demand side, and this kind of outrage is integral to forming boycott factions large enough to oppose the advertising and noise produced by the marketing-industrial complex.

As corporations become ever larger, it becomes harder to make demand-side opinions observable, and so it becomes necessary to employ more extreme forms of protest to avoid being overpowered by the sell-side attempts at influence. If that influence is not opposed, the market will become entirely dominated by the sell-side and will allow trust-like abuse of power, destroying the equilibrium pressure by which markets are allegedly regulated. This kind of market abuse does not require monopolies, and appears to be a blind spot for many proponents of market economies.

This is not just a problem with gaming, and one could reasonably argue that there are more important battles to fight. That said, this is probably one of the few markets where that kind of demand-side mobilization is still possible, as many others have already been neutralized by divide-and-conquer tactics.

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#74

Post by slothtrop »

pcwalton wrote: post #19
malvosenior wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vitriol expressed by the gaming press against fans far exceeds the gamers anger. Gamers: "Is this a joke? We don't want mobile Diablo" Game Press: "Gamers are whiny, entitled, toxic babies" You can see it here for yourself: https://i.redd.it/6mgpttba94w11.jpg It's been this way for a long time and was the reason Gamergate became a thing (see "Gamers are Dead"). The worst part is that because the journalists in th…

"GamerGate" was "a thing" because of disgusting, and deeply held, misogyny within the gaming community. The reason why every legitimate press outlet covered "GamerGate" from the standpoint of a harassment campaign against women is because that is precisely what it was.

Seems it had more than one type of actor. Some proponents wanted to naively believe the movement didn't represent misogyny if they themselves weren't, but so much of that was perpetrated on behalf of GG. The right thing to do would have had to been splintering and loudly decrying the death threats and misogyny, but of course, the mob didn't do that and they've themselves to blame. Mind you I haven't read much about that nonsense. It was so mundane.

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#75

Post by slothtrop »

gmueckl wrote: post #52
pier25 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Instead of saying "don't you have phones?" they should have said "We are working on a new Diablo PC title but we aren't ready to talk about it yet". Would have been a very different reaction.

But imagine yourself up on stage in front of thousands of people, with 2 or 3 seconds to come up with an answer while you are not allowed to mention any unannounced games. What would you have said? This is hard and many of us would not have done much better than this on the spot. The only "better" answer that I can think of would be a vague, general hint that Blozzard is working on more titles than those that are ann…

> But imagine yourself up on stage in front of thousands of people, with 2 or 3 seconds to come up with an answer while you are not allowed to mention any unannounced games.

I'm almost certain it was partially rehearsed.

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#76

Post by gleed »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #66
_2d30 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So while I agree the Twitter post about toxic masculinity is both a HUGELY weird leap and a further sign of the times, Kotaku's take on the situation seems (at least the quoted bit, I didn't read the whole article) a perfectly reasonable and even the "proper" take on the situation. Perhaps barring the "video game culture enables entitlement" bit. It's a shame watching the quite literal rage that has come about from a…

It truly is the bratty self-centered rage that's incredible to witness. "Hey, we're working on the game you want. In the mean time here's another game for different users." "Noooooo! I've been betrayed! This is the ultimate insult!!!!" And as much as people don't want to admit it, gamergate was the same thing. I've spent a lot of time gaming in my past, but there's something unhealthy floating around here. If you saw…

The mobile game itself is not the problem - for all we know it might be the best mobile game ever invented. The problem is the context in which it was presented.

The one big new game announcement at Blizzcon is an important event for all those people watching - the actual people in the audience for example pay a lot of money to go there partially for that experience.

You watch Blizzcon expecting an announcement of a big game of one of their major existing franchise or a new one. So you wait until the end for that hype reveal, you wait for the next entry in one of your favorite games, be it Diablo 4, Warcraft 4, Starcraft 3, something Overwatch related or whatever it is.

And then it turns out it's a mobile game that certainly does not speak to the majority audience actually watching, in fact quite the opposite, and it's not even an inhouse developed one but one outsourced to a chinese pay to win clone developer.

And then the presentation ends. Everyone is left disappointed and Blizzard eventually showed the finger to most people watching because they gave the most important spot in their presentation to that, showing a complete misunderstanding of what their actual fans are after.

It doesn't help that Diablo Immortal is a literal reskin of Netease's other game 'Endless of God' which in turn is a clear copy of Diablo 3.

Regarding your overall point of the reaction being some sign of bratty and self centered behaviour - that's honestly quite silly. The game developer puts a game product out there in a huge showing clearly wanting a reaction. Not for no reason either, they want money for this thing, they want to get rich off of it. Then when the reaction is an exceptionally negative one it makes people self centered and bratty? Your view on the matter makes no sense.

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#77

Post by philipov »

zaphar wrote: post #46
philipov wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Successful GUI idioms," is that a euphemism for dark patterns to make people spend more money? Anyway, even if they built it from scratch it isn't enough to refute the spirit of it being just a reskin of some other crappy cellphone game. Many, though certainly not all PC gamers are serious about not having their platform choices manipulated by exclusivity deals. It is interpreted as bullying, and we have had plenty…

Wow, you are harsh. They replicated the control scheme from another game because it was a good control scheme. Sort of like how most PC games all use Q,W,E,S for movement. You don't know what the monetization scheme will be but you are sure it will use dark patterns to drain peoples wallets. You apparently didn't read the article to see what the similar GUI patterns they replicated were but you are certain it's just…

Dark Patterns != Pay To Win; that is just one tactic. It is well known that the metrics by which success are measured in mobile gaming are addictiveness and microtransactions: the ability to create whales.

> Your bias is showing.

Your ignorance of the market is showing.

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#78

Post by jakebasile »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #72
jakebasile wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're mystified by it because you probably aren't a dedicated gamer. To lots of people, including myself, gaming is a huge part of their identity and lifestyle. It's a hobby like any other such as repairing old cars, painting, craft beer, etc. The "but climate change" is just whataboutism because gaming isn't important to you, so why aren't people paying more attention to what is important to you. edit to clarify: T…

> It's a hobby like any other such as repairing old cars, painting, craft beer, etc. And yet you don't see people who follow those hobbies throwing an absolute fit like gamers are now doing continuously.

A big part of that is comparative population size, and the general "connectedness" of the fanbases. All online communities are trending worse and worse, and gaming is not unaffected.

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#79

Post by fileeditview »

pkaye wrote: post #11

Maybe they can make another "head tilted to the left with mouth open" game. https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/8gt6vs/why_yes_i_do...

This made me laugh a lot.. it seems like the icon for Fallout Shelter was changed to look more like the others. They wrote in the patch notes:

"Vault-Tec has noticed many overseers prefer game icons with faces screaming to the right. In an effort to raise your enjoyment and thoughtlessly blend in with the crowd, we’ve updated for a limited time. You’re welcome!"

(this is from a Reddit comment)

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#80

Post by thomasz »

ggregoire wrote: post #56
pcwalton wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And people wonder how the hell do they get away with p2w and gambling mechanics in games. Because that business model is profitable, and entertainment is a business like any other. If you don't like it, you are free not to play it. Besides some potential for gambling addiction (about which state lotteries are a far more important target for your ire if that is your concern), mobile games produce no externalities wh…

> I continue to be completely mystified with the concept of outrage about video games. What about the concept of outrage about programming languages, frameworks, web browsers, operating systems, laptops, phones, open source? I guess 99.9% of the population would be mystified with the outrages that we can see on Hacker News. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17221527 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1741357…

The comments in these links are downright tame compared to r/diablo right now, while the stakes are way higher. The decisions of tech giants like Google, Microsoft and Apple have real, tangible impacts on our careers.

Diablo is just a goddamn video game.

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