Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal • Hacker News Board

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#61

Post by sharpneli » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 6:11 PM UTC

happytoexplain wrote: post #57

sharpneli wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The project is fine, but just don't present it at Blizzcon? Precisely this. It's not that feeble because you must remember what Blizzcon is. Know your audience. Blizzcon audience has paid $199 to get in. They are quite hard core PC gamers. If your main show for them is something they are not interested of course they are gonna be unhappy. If Blizzard wants to change Blizzcon they should tell the audience that "Blizz…

You're making a point that keeps being brought up about expectations, which is valid and I get it, but I think the point was not that people should not rightfully criticize Blizzard for that, but rather that the absolute outrage seems ridiculous. This sort of over-the-top accusative outrage is a sad fixture in modern culture, but it seems bizarrely more common in video game news than elsewhere.

If you look at what the audience does it's not that different from what happens elsewhere in entertainment.

What is unique in gaming is the feedback loop that happens. First the media responds by saying the guy is an asshole. Then the gamers respond with more vitriol. Then there is "Everyone hating the mobile diablo is a misogynist" kind of tweets. Rinse and repeat.

Do note I'm not justifying it. Merely trying to reason about why especially in gaming these outrages escalate into insane heights instead of dying in meh after a day or two.

We have been seeing this kind of vicious circle elsewhere too lately. As an example the latest Star Wars film where it ended up so bad that if you didn't like the film you were a Russian troll.

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#62

Post by slothtrop » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 6:13 PM UTC

_2d30 wrote: post #28

bdz wrote: post #12

And Kotaku once again spins the wheel against the players >The explosion of outrage has many on social media discussing the extent to which video game culture enables entitlement. It’s not surprising, after all, that there’s been some pushback on the idea of a mobile Diablo game. What’s shocking here is the sheer amount of molten vitriol that’s pouring in over what seems to be a pretty cut-and-dry situation: A proper…

So while I agree the Twitter post about toxic masculinity is both a HUGELY weird leap and a further sign of the times, Kotaku's take on the situation seems (at least the quoted bit, I didn't read the whole article) a perfectly reasonable and even the "proper" take on the situation. Perhaps barring the "video game culture enables entitlement" bit. It's a shame watching the quite literal rage that has come about from a…

> some portion, however large

The largest, from what I gather.

Speaking as a non-fan, it was an egregious mistake to announce it at a conference geared toward hardcore Diablo consumers. This is conspicuously glossed over in social media commentary: had they announced it online in business-as-usual fashion no one would care. Instead we're directed to shame fans about not collectively giving a fuck about mediocre cash grabs.

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#63

Post by navbaker » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

UncleMeat wrote: post #59

mrweasel wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The venue is just weird, why would they even announce a Diablo mobile game at BlizzCon? The people who care enough about Blizzards games to attend or follow BlizzCon DO NOT CARE about mobile games, at all. The people handling marketing and products at Blizzard, and EA, and Bethesda aren't in touch with their most loyal fans. I can only imagine how much money there must be in in-game transactions, given that all three…

But hearthstone exists. This is clear evidence that some portion of the community does care about mobile games at blizzcon.

The mobile version of hearthstone came long after the pc version.

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#64

Post by swdunlop » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

fishtank wrote: post #16

bdz wrote: post #12

And Kotaku once again spins the wheel against the players >The explosion of outrage has many on social media discussing the extent to which video game culture enables entitlement. It’s not surprising, after all, that there’s been some pushback on the idea of a mobile Diablo game. What’s shocking here is the sheer amount of molten vitriol that’s pouring in over what seems to be a pretty cut-and-dry situation: A proper…

What injustice has been dealt to the subset of "the players" who are outraged about this?

Mostly disappointment after hyping themselves up for a PC sequel to Diablo. I am not outraged, but just cynical:

From the article:

"it’s a fully fledged Diablo experience on mobile, which everybody will get to play, and hopefully, which will bring new heroes to Sanctuary as well as welcoming our community back into it and something we’re very excited about."

Blizzard has simplified their games to grow their customer base, such as the Cataclysm expansion to World of Warcraft. These simplifications have not been well received by the existing players. My reaction to Diablo Immortal is skepticism about how much crunch there will be. Diablo 3 was not terribly interesting for me after you got past the first few playthroughs, compared to Diablo 2 or more modern ARPGs like Path of Exile.

It's not really anger, it's disappointment; if Immortal turns out to be a great game, I'll happily buy it. The noises Blizzard are hearing from the fans are basically a reminder that they have lost customers when trying to get new ones.

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#65

Post by threatofrain » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 6:16 PM UTC

zaphar wrote: post #46

philipov wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Successful GUI idioms," is that a euphemism for dark patterns to make people spend more money? Anyway, even if they built it from scratch it isn't enough to refute the spirit of it being just a reskin of some other crappy cellphone game. Many, though certainly not all PC gamers are serious about not having their platform choices manipulated by exclusivity deals. It is interpreted as bullying, and we have had plenty…

Wow, you are harsh. They replicated the control scheme from another game because it was a good control scheme. Sort of like how most PC games all use Q,W,E,S for movement. You don't know what the monetization scheme will be but you are sure it will use dark patterns to drain peoples wallets. You apparently didn't read the article to see what the similar GUI patterns they replicated were but you are certain it's just…

I do feel that the world of mobile games is tarnished in reputation for good reason, and that backlash against mobile games is primarily from parents, because the population they've been targeting has been very young kids.

In some ways it also tarnishes the Android and Apple brand, which is why I think Google reacted with multi-accounts device sharing and YouTube kids. I wonder how much mobile gaming revenue is because parents signed in with their credit card and there aren't multiple accounts on iOS, and you can't update a game without the parent signing back in, and Family Sharing has no granularity. I have to think that Apple has walked over every inch of their UX and knows this.

On Blizzard, I'm feeling what they mismanaged was the fact that their conference is expensive and anticipated enough to travel to, but what they announced is for a different audience.

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#66

Post by BoiledCabbage » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 6:16 PM UTC

_2d30 wrote: post #28

bdz wrote: post #12

And Kotaku once again spins the wheel against the players >The explosion of outrage has many on social media discussing the extent to which video game culture enables entitlement. It’s not surprising, after all, that there’s been some pushback on the idea of a mobile Diablo game. What’s shocking here is the sheer amount of molten vitriol that’s pouring in over what seems to be a pretty cut-and-dry situation: A proper…

So while I agree the Twitter post about toxic masculinity is both a HUGELY weird leap and a further sign of the times, Kotaku's take on the situation seems (at least the quoted bit, I didn't read the whole article) a perfectly reasonable and even the "proper" take on the situation. Perhaps barring the "video game culture enables entitlement" bit. It's a shame watching the quite literal rage that has come about from a…

It truly is the bratty self-centered rage that's incredible to witness.

"Hey, we're working on the game you want. In the mean time here's another game for different users."

"Noooooo! I've been betrayed! This is the ultimate insult!!!!"

And as much as people don't want to admit it, gamergate was the same thing.

I've spent a lot of time gaming in my past, but there's something unhealthy floating around here. If you saw this own behavior in your own son or daughter you'd recognize it instantly.

And now to take this one step too far, to where I'll get negative responses: It's almost as if the hundreds of hours spent in online cultures where flaming vitriol is spewed at the smallest slight has developed a subculture where (obviously not all) but a significant group of people can't handle when things slightly deviate from their wants.

It's funny, but I'm reminded of Willy Wonka's factory tour.

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#67

Post by beerbajay » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

"Fans" feel entitled to something but aren't actually entitled to anything, complain a lot. LOUDLY CRYING FACE

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#68

Post by anothergoogler » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 6:19 PM UTC

bdz wrote: post #12

And Kotaku once again spins the wheel against the players >The explosion of outrage has many on social media discussing the extent to which video game culture enables entitlement. It’s not surprising, after all, that there’s been some pushback on the idea of a mobile Diablo game. What’s shocking here is the sheer amount of molten vitriol that’s pouring in over what seems to be a pretty cut-and-dry situation: A proper…

Talk about bad writing! I guess you need to write things like "molten vitriol" to get your point across when every sentence is hyberbolic. Some journalists need to learn that turning it to 11 isn't a legitimate approach outside of tabloids. Maybe Kotaku is a tabloid though.

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#69

Post by pcwalton » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

ggregoire wrote: post #56

pcwalton wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And people wonder how the hell do they get away with p2w and gambling mechanics in games. Because that business model is profitable, and entertainment is a business like any other. If you don't like it, you are free not to play it. Besides some potential for gambling addiction (about which state lotteries are a far more important target for your ire if that is your concern), mobile games produce no externalities wh…

> I continue to be completely mystified with the concept of outrage about video games. What about the concept of outrage about programming languages, frameworks, web browsers, operating systems, laptops, phones, open source? I guess 99.9% of the population would be mystified with the outrages that we can see on Hacker News. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17221527 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1741357…

I think a lot of people have overly strong opinions on things like programming languages and web browsers as well.

Re: Blizzard Says It Wasn't Expecting Fans to Be This Angry About Diablo Immortal

#70

Post by BoiledCabbage » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

kowdermeister wrote: post #21

pcwalton wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And people wonder how the hell do they get away with p2w and gambling mechanics in games. Because that business model is profitable, and entertainment is a business like any other. If you don't like it, you are free not to play it. Besides some potential for gambling addiction (about which state lotteries are a far more important target for your ire if that is your concern), mobile games produce no externalities wh…

This is all fine, but I help demystify the problem here. They marketed the new game to a completely detached audience as the highlight of the event. And when real questions came in, like "maybe a PC version comes later?" The reaction is: "You guys not have phones?" [1] I can see people snapping to rage mode. And then the gaming 'media' calls theys guys out as assholes, which really shows how strings are really pulled…

> I can see people snapping to rage mode.

"I can see" doesn't make it reasonable, nor rational. Maybe because you're deeper in it you're more acclimated, but to most viewers it's like saying "I can see my 5 year old throwing a tantrum, crying and throwing his clothes off in the middle of the grocery store because he wants to eat the ice cream now and not wait until we're home."