On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score • Hacker News Board

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#401

Post by closetohome » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 4:58 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #96

kenneth wrote: post #57

The most obvious example of this in daily life is through airlines, where the difference is pretty transparent and you get night-and-day better service by being a loyal customer. With top status with AA and UA (EXP and 1K), you connected to U.S.-based very senior phone agents right away, who always make sure to take care of any issue that arises. 50min delay on your AA flight? No problem, sir, we are rebooking you on…

Tangent: Are there other people here who just refuse to sign up for any of these programs? I have family members who are super into frequent flyer programs, credit card points, etc, etc. But I don't like the cognitive load they introduce, and I don't like having to figure out how much I'm being manipulated in any given interaction. I get that I'm missing out on goodies, but they're paying for those goodies somehow, s…

All rewards programs and cards are the same thing -- accumulating virtual currency. The token ancillary perks the airline gives you for playing along aren't worth it.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#402

Post by closetohome » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 5:01 PM UTC

bdhess wrote: post #321

wpietri wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes sense, but my reaction is the exact opposite. If they're going to structure it to be shitty so I do what they want, then I'm for damned sure not going to do what they want. One of my big life rules is "don't feed pigeons." I mean it metaphorically, of course. Pigeons are machines for turning food into pigeon shit and more pigeons, and I'm not a big fan of either. A clearer version is something like, "don't…

> If they're going to structure it to be shitty so I do what they want They've structured it to be shitty because that's what the market wants: the lowest cost product. When I fly the major carriers, I often still see the "premium economy" seats available for purchase at check-in. Those cost an extra $50-100 to get extra legroom, early boarding, etc. These are the same perks that they provide for free to their entry-…

> They'd rather buy the cheapest ticket, suck it up for a couple hours, and grouse about how bad air travel is afterwards.

Truer words were never spoken. I had to book a Spirit flight home unexpectedly, and while I'd heard nothing but bad things about them, I found it a perfectly acceptable experience. Of course they charge for everything -- the ticket was $100 cheaper than United. Where do people think that discount comes from?

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#403

Post by closetohome » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 5:04 PM UTC

clubm8 wrote: post #396

wpietri wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangent: Are there other people here who just refuse to sign up for any of these programs? I have family members who are super into frequent flyer programs, credit card points, etc, etc. But I don't like the cognitive load they introduce, and I don't like having to figure out how much I'm being manipulated in any given interaction. I get that I'm missing out on goodies, but they're paying for those goodies somehow, s…

>I have family members who are super into frequent flyer programs, credit card points, etc, etc. But I don't like the cognitive load they introduce, and I don't like having to figure out how much I'm being manipulated in any given interaction. You can't handle the cognitive load of attaching a unique identifier to your account? You don't need to pick an airline or game credit cards - just sign up next time you book a…

Acquiring points is simple. Redeeming them requires a non-trivial amount of work.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#404

Post by closetohome » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 5:08 PM UTC

Godel_unicode wrote: post #244

ghostly_s wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah....I get all that on all but the cheapest of discount airlines just by downloading their apps. This is not a "loyalty perk".

Why would you have the app and not sign up for the program?? It's no extra work, and it's not like you're avoiding being tracked. Especially with an airline.

That's a totally different game. Of course I have individual airline accounts, and of course I accumulate those points. Hell, half the time the points and website account are the same thing now.

But that's peanuts and will never add up to much because I only fly a few times a year and it's usually on different airlines. The real miles game is accumulating points from other purchases, and churning those into free travel and such. Both generating and redeeming points in those volumes is a lot of work -- I've done it and eventually decided it wasn't worth my time.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#405

Post by closetohome » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #164

hueving wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only like 5 minutes of your time (if that), unless you have difficulties following basic account sign up processes on a website.

Though I have seen airlines start offering 0 miles or a fraction of miles on the cheapest seats unless you pay more.

"Pay $20 to double your bonus miles!" is the airline equivalent of buying in-game currency.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#406

Post by philwelch » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

soneil wrote: post #13

How's this a secret? I used to work in retail/service. Not something with data and metrics, just a mom'n'pop. But we knew our customers. We especially knew our regulars. And you did try not to piss off a regular. But from this I learnt that people will try to play their 'value' as a trump card when they want to complain. Do you know who I am, do you know how much I spend here, I come here every day, blah blah blah. T…

Which is why I don't think our current notions of "privacy" are going to be a persistent concern. In the past, people lived in human-scale communities where everyone knew each other and had reputations. In the future, identity and reputation will be increasingly managed by technology. The middle period, where people lived in large metropolitan communities in relative anonymity, is the abnormality.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#407

Post by ndrr » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

atourgates wrote: post #203

wpietri wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangent: Are there other people here who just refuse to sign up for any of these programs? I have family members who are super into frequent flyer programs, credit card points, etc, etc. But I don't like the cognitive load they introduce, and I don't like having to figure out how much I'm being manipulated in any given interaction. I get that I'm missing out on goodies, but they're paying for those goodies somehow, s…

There's something about air travel that makes it a uniquely terrible experience and drives me to participate in these programs. There is nothing I do in my life regularly where I'm more restricted, or more closely related to a rigid caste system than air travel. Every time you take a flight, for somewhere between 3 and 20 hours, you're told exactly where to stand, where to sit, what you can and can't wear, what you c…

But with southwest you have the cattle drive to get on the plane and the need to check-in (ASAP!) 24 hours before the flight to get a good spot in the queue. I check southwest when planning trips because of other benefits, but I don't feel less stressed with Southwest.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#408

Post by baddox » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

Vraxx wrote: post #391

baddox wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I've seen more and more politicians in the US who support that, or at least that's what I hear when they talk about privatizing education, healthcare, and even the FAA. We're still losing the distinction between privatizing more things and privatizing everything. I'm not aware of any federal-level US politicians who want to privatize, say, the military. > but I don't think that's an argument for privatization b…

>We're still losing the distinction between privatizing more things and privatizing everything. I'm not aware of any federal-level US politicians who want to privatize, say, the military. That's because we've already privatized the profitable bits of the military in the Defense Industry. There's a phrase I've heard that goes something like "Privatize the profits and socialize the losses". Human life loss is extremely…

> corporate accountability is only effective at keeping leadership accountable to profits not to morals and profits don't care one bit about whats right or wrong.

Absolutely, and political accountability is only effective at keeping elected officials accountable to elections, not to morals. And that's only the aspects of government that are even supposedly accountable to the electorate (a huge amount of government is not).

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#409

Post by ghostly_s » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 5:47 PM UTC

Godel_unicode wrote: post #244

ghostly_s wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah....I get all that on all but the cheapest of discount airlines just by downloading their apps. This is not a "loyalty perk".

Why would you have the app and not sign up for the program?? It's no extra work, and it's not like you're avoiding being tracked. Especially with an airline.

Because I just fly with whomever is cheaper/more convenient flight time. I don't fly often enough to get anything useful out of these rewards programs, and I delete the airline's app as soon as my trip is done; the cognitive overhead of creating yet-another-login and tracking these points with a half-dozen different airlines just so I might or might not get some sort of reward in five years is in no way an appealing value prop to me.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#410

Post by sho » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 6:44 PM UTC

daemin wrote: post #363

sho wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really need references to support that claim because it's also the complete opposite of everything I've ever heard. While it's true that simply multiplying seat numbers by advertised prices is not giving the whole picture, and running lounges isn't free, the extra costs are absolutely outweighed by the far higher cost of the ticket. Full service airlines would fill the whole plane with business if they have the d…

Isn't the latest Singapore to New York flight entirely business class?

Yes they do, although I'd be surprised if they fill it every day or even most days. J is notoriously choppy as it doesn't have the price discrimination carriers can use to smooth Y pax around to fill up the days. Simultaneously its strength and its weakness from an airline revenue perspective. Singapore has tried and failed in this product before; maybe this time the market is ready - still, it's probably not the license to print money one might imagine.

I think quite a few financial/corporate centre city pairs support a business-only flight, though even with this famously rich city pair, BA1 from london city to NY is flown on an a320! It's a difficult product to make work.

Upon further reflection I believe what the grandparent commenter was trying to say is that airlines, as a whole, get more revenue from economy pax, which is probably true for most airlines. On a route that supports a decent J component, though, they can rake in the cash.