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Google staff walk out over women's treatment

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#321

Post by gingerbread-man »

sizzle wrote: post #314

"A clear, uniform, globally inclusive process for reporting sexual misconduct safely and anonymously " Can anyone help me understand the rationale behind the anonymous part, with respect to due process and how the framework for anonymous accusations can be abused by bad actors? Edit - I have a question about the anonymous nature of reporting to HR, with respect to due process for the accuser and accused, maybe some o…

Maybe they're referencing something like Callisto (YC Nonprofit W18):

"Founders will be able to use Callisto to securely store the identities of perpetrators of sexual coercion and assault. These identities will be encrypted in a way that not even the Callisto team can view. If multiple founders name the same perpetrator, they will be referred to an attorney who can then decrypt the founder’s contact info and reach out to provide them with free advice on their options for coming forward, including the option to share information with other victims of the same perpetrator." Source: https://blog.ycombinator.com/survey-of-yc-female-founders-on...

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#322

Post by tomcam »

Harvey-Specter wrote: post #317
sizzle wrote: post #314

"A clear, uniform, globally inclusive process for reporting sexual misconduct safely and anonymously " Can anyone help me understand the rationale behind the anonymous part, with respect to due process and how the framework for anonymous accusations can be abused by bad actors? Edit - I have a question about the anonymous nature of reporting to HR, with respect to due process for the accuser and accused, maybe some o…

It's probably meant to alleviate fear of retribution.

I guess you missed the part of the question referring to due process

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#323

Post by danans »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #308
solipsism wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words are cheap.

So is grandstanding by people with well paid, cushy as hell jobs who are happy to point fingers. My mother always told me "When you point a finger at others, you have three fingers pointing back at you." What are these people personally doing to ensure that they are respecting women, creating the right kind of social climate at work, etc? Because all the policy in the world can't per se fix a shitty culture. Shitty c…

> What are these people personally doing to ensure that they are respecting women, creating the right kind of social climate at work, etc?

By handling interactions I have with women at work cognizant of the many ways in which their experience in the workplace differs from mine.

Also, I think about my daughter, and how I'd want her to be treated if she worked here.

> They are usually people wanting someone else to fix a problem so they don't have to actually change.

I can't personally fix the problem of (IMO wrong) decisions made by management on these issues. But I can help increase the pressure (public and internal) on them to make concrete changes.

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#324

Post by tomcam »

jiveturkey wrote: post #306

Very disappointed with mainstream media coverage here. The walkout is being headlined as a complaint against harassment. It's not. It's a complaint against the company (rightly so) valuing its corporate reputation in the world in which we live vs standing behind the victims as if they were family, and going medieval (eg excommunication) on the harassers. Certainly there's a balance and perhaps google is on the wrong…

How do you know sexual harassment at Microsoft is brushed aside? (I haven't heard reports either way.)

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#325

Post by jimbokun »

module0000 wrote: post #216
jimbokun wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People voluntarily entered into indentured servitude once upon a time, too.

They didn't have options - every single Google employee(past and present) has options. They selected this one, voluntarily. Indentured servitude is not a valid analogy.

They do not have any options where forced arbitration is not one of the conditions. Pretty much every corporation does this, so there are no realistic options for avoiding it.

There may be a very small number of cases where an employee successfully negotiated against this clause, but it probably requires the candidate to be a true outlier in terms of talent and skill set for the company to even consider it.

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#326

Post by drdeadringer »

ryanmercer wrote: post #284
drdeadringer wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They would open themselves up to huge amounts of foreign manipulation and political sabotage. I'd like to know how you envision this happening. Like, China calls Google's CDO and says "We'd love to see more Chinese hires, we might consider sending you a welcome-back invitation"?

>I'd like to know how you envision this happening Botnets of fake social media accounts for starters. You think if they are currently manipulating political elections they won't ever try and use similar tactics to tank a company? China: "Google give us user data!" Google: "No way!" China: "PLA Unit 61398, hurt the Google! Make accusations! Lots of accusations! Many many many accusations!" ---- China: "State media, ru…

... but some of these examples happen already. How is a CDO reporting to the CEO going to amplify any already magnified negative PR and force action?

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#327

Post by hunt_housecats »

killaken2000 wrote: post #231
ChrisRR wrote: post #10

So the first demand is "A commitment to end pay and opportunity inequality" I'd like to see the actual data behind this constant inequality claim. I would be genuinely interested to see what kind of difference there is between the sexes when comparing like-for-like jobs. I've heard speculation that women don't argue for higher salaries as much as men, I've also heard that the data is never accurate because it doesn't…

It actually says "inequity" which has a different meaning than 'inequality'.

great, now we have to figure out if the authors know the difference between inequality and inequity.

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#328

Post by hueving »

jiveturkey wrote: post #306

Very disappointed with mainstream media coverage here. The walkout is being headlined as a complaint against harassment. It's not. It's a complaint against the company (rightly so) valuing its corporate reputation in the world in which we live vs standing behind the victims as if they were family, and going medieval (eg excommunication) on the harassers. Certainly there's a balance and perhaps google is on the wrong…

>is telling about the employee culture at Google.

How so? They have risked nothing by participating because Google isn't a high school where you break a rule by going outside.

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#329

Post by solipsism »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #319
solipsism wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? You asked, essentially, "why would they walking out if their CEO supports their cause?" Although I thought the answer was a bit obvious, I answered... Words are cheap and the employees want to see action. Your response is to talk about pointing fingers? I don't understand your point. What do you have against Google employees making demands of their managers? My mother always told me "When you point a finger at…

Yes, "words are cheap" is so obvious, it goes without saying. It doesn't add anything substantive to the discussion. So saying that to me really doesn't cast any light whatsoever on this situation for me.

If someone at the top is sincerely interested in resolving this satisfactorily, why the walk-out? I don't get it.

That just sounds so naive. If I knew what your real disconnect with this was, I'd try to help you understand.

Let's walk through the basics:

* Employees have a problem with management.

* Management says "we'll work on it" like they always do.

* Employees may or may not believe, but they want to see action taking place. Employees feel secure enough at their privileged jobs to make a statement by "walking out", with the explicit threat of further action if demands aren't met.

* Management encourages the employees... And will have to decide if they mean business, in part based on the walk-outs.

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#330

Post by sah2ed »

jiveturkey wrote: post #306

Very disappointed with mainstream media coverage here. The walkout is being headlined as a complaint against harassment. It's not. It's a complaint against the company (rightly so) valuing its corporate reputation in the world in which we live vs standing behind the victims as if they were family, and going medieval (eg excommunication) on the harassers. Certainly there's a balance and perhaps google is on the wrong…

> That a walkout like this only happens at Google and not, say, microsoft, where surely sexual harassment also occurs and is also brushed aside, is telling about the employee culture at Google.

There's a much simpler explanation than you are implying. The trigger for Googlers is the story from last week in the NYT about a former Google exec.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/technology/google-sexual-...

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