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iPad Pro

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Re: iPad Pro

#781

Post by eddieroger »

pjmlp wrote: post #770
eddieroger wrote: post #768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because conferences require money to run, and the kinds of people who back conferences tend to only run Linux on their servers, not their workstations. Enterprise Linux in general is happy enough being in the data center, and could have made harder pushes for the desktop for years now, but haven't.

Basically what Apple and Microsoft have found out, it suffices to offer a POSIX CLI for UNIX "desktop" users.

(Apple user disclaimer) Apple isn’t really offering just a CLI, it exposes the UNIX on which it is built. My understanding of Windows is that it just offers a runtime and abstraction layer.

Re: iPad Pro

#782

Post by pjmlp »

eddieroger wrote: post #781
pjmlp wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically what Apple and Microsoft have found out, it suffices to offer a POSIX CLI for UNIX "desktop" users.

(Apple user disclaimer) Apple isn’t really offering just a CLI, it exposes the UNIX on which it is built. My understanding of Windows is that it just offers a runtime and abstraction layer.

Windows offers a complete personality for Linux syscalls.

Objective-C/Swift Frameworks have nothing to do with UNIX, Apple could easily port them to another kernel architecture.

Likewise OS X driver model has nothing to do with UNIX, being modeled on an C++ subset, which was originally written in Objective-C back in the NeXTSTEP days.

The only UNIX GUI certified as such is Motif, which Apple certainly isn't offering on their products.

Nor is the audio stack in any way related to UNIX.

Re: iPad Pro

#783

Post by djhworld »

askafriend wrote: post #663
djhworld wrote: post #445

This page makes it sound like the Apple Pencil and the foldable keyboard come in the box, when in fact they are sold separately and are very expensive. So on top of your £769 for the entry level 'Pro, the Pencil is an extra £119 and keyboard is £179, topping the whole package to £1047. Even more if you go for the 12" model.

You forget that the iPad Pro also has a full digitizer on it. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1408960-REG/wacom_dth... What are your thoughts on this Wacom Cintiq Pro? Do you think this is too expensive? A lot of designers I know are replacing that with an iPad Pro. For many, the iPad is a much more flexible tool AND cheaper AND more powerful. The Cintiq still has it's place and for people that very specifical…

I was commenting more on the fact that the pencil and keyboard are sold separately, even though they're pictured extensively on the information page about the iPad Pro

It gave me the impression they were included in the box

Re: iPad Pro

#784

Post by int_19h »

pjmlp wrote: post #752
int_19h wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also for Apple to allow v8, they would have to permit 3rd party unsigned executable code (JITed in this case). Apple doesn't want to allow that. And how does that pertain to security? Android doesn't seem to have a problem with JITed code in sandboxed store apps. Neither does Win10.

Actually UWP does not allow for JIT code, other than Chackra, as you should know. Hence MDIL in WP 8.x and .NET Native on WP 10 onwards.

WinRT sandbox has always allowed for JIT'ted code, all the way back to the original Windows 8 release - all .NET Store apps back then were running on a JIT. .NET Native is a later addition that is there solely to improve performance, and it is still opt-in.

Now, Win8.x did not allow for third-party JIT compilers in the sandbox; it was only CLR or Chakra. But UWP does - look for the "codeGeneration" capability here:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/packaging/app-c...

Re: iPad Pro

#785

Post by saagarjha »

Pulcinella wrote: post #666
saagarjha wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Swift Playgrounds app really hasn’t gotten any love[1] since it was first introduced. The UI has been changed slightly. > You can actually import UIKit and the other frameworks and compile them on the iPad but this is pretty much undocumentated. Well, it's UIKit. You can just pull up the documentation at developer.apple.com. > The preview views are tremendously buggy (really the whole app is) and there is all s…

When I say it’s in undocumented I mean that the fact that you can use UIkit at all is undocumented. You can use it but you are never told you can. Also there is little documentation that explains things like XCPlayground and PlaygroundsSupport. You kind of have to adapt them from the Xcode Playgrounds for the Mac but the fact that you can do this is never mentioned. Also the limitations on Swift Playgrounds are never…

> When I say it’s in undocumented I mean that the fact that you can use UIkit at all is undocumented.

A couple of the example playgrounds expose this.

> Also there is little documentation that explains things like XCPlayground and PlaygroundsSupport.

Documentation is available here: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/playgroundsupport. It's not great, but it's getting better.

> Also the limitations on Swift Playgrounds are never mentioned anywhere (e.g. autolayout constraints don’t really work for the Playgrounds previews.

They do, but in a buggy way. I have long considered this to be a defect and have filed Radars about this.

> Also, as far as I am aware, you cannot add to the sources folder on the iPad itself. That requires a Mac.

You can create playgrounds on the fly with the Files app, if you know the structure they must have. You cannot edit them in Swift Playgrounds.

Re: iPad Pro

#786

Post by eddieroger »

pjmlp wrote: post #782
eddieroger wrote: post #781

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Apple user disclaimer) Apple isn’t really offering just a CLI, it exposes the UNIX on which it is built. My understanding of Windows is that it just offers a runtime and abstraction layer.

Windows offers a complete personality for Linux syscalls. Objective-C/Swift Frameworks have nothing to do with UNIX, Apple could easily port them to another kernel architecture. Likewise OS X driver model has nothing to do with UNIX, being modeled on an C++ subset, which was originally written in Objective-C back in the NeXTSTEP days. The only UNIX GUI certified as such is Motif, which Apple certainly isn't offering…

I never claimed macOS was UNIX, but Darwin is certified UNIX[1]. Opening Terminal in macOS gives you a real bash without any of the rest of macOS.

1. https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3555.htm

Re: iPad Pro

#787

Post by sjwright »

kllrnohj wrote: post #777
sjwright wrote: post #765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their marketing begins and ends with large, high quality photographs of the product which clearly shows the bezel size. Nobody is going to be misled. Reserve your criticism for companies like LG who actually lied about their monitors: https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=...

There's not a limit for criticism. Just because LG was worse in a particular instances doesn't mean Apple gets a free pass.

My point is nobody is being deceived and Apple clearly isn't trying to be deceptive. "Edge to edge" as a term has been used to describe many things, and never the mythical 0.00mm bezel that only a pedant would assume.

But sure, there's no limit to criticism.

Everything is horrible.

Buy nothing.

Re: iPad Pro

#788

Post by sjwright »

exodust wrote: post #732
byproxy wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do feel it odd to say content creation will be done on a desktop OS rather than a mobile OS when it seems that more and more people are using their mobile OS as a primary means of creation and sharing. Maybe in a less powerful way, but mobile OS apps and hardware have really democratized content creation and I don't see that trend reversing.

> "mobile OS apps and hardware have really democratized content creation" ? Democratized? Is that because you perceive mobile devices as more affordable? Have you checked the price of a new iPad Pro?

Mobile systems have democratized content creation not because of price (though that too; not everyone buys the most expensive device) but because they are demonstrably easier to use for content creation than anything that came before them.

Source: personal experience with multiple over-65 people for whom an iPad or iPhone is the first internet-connected computer they've ever owned.

Re: iPad Pro

#789

Post by ricardobeat »

avcdsuia wrote: post #708
ricardobeat wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of that can be done in a remote VM. I use Coda + Shelly on an iPad pro and it's a pretty decent development experience. The real barrier is for (non-web) GUI development.

What's the point of having an A12X chip while running everything remotely?

The UI is absolutely smooth unlike any laptop!

Coda has a local server/browser pair you can use for simpler things. But usually the kind of web work I'm doing barely exercises a single core, it all runs on a $2.50/month VM.

Re: iPad Pro

#790

Post by exodust »

sjwright wrote: post #788
exodust wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "mobile OS apps and hardware have really democratized content creation" ? Democratized? Is that because you perceive mobile devices as more affordable? Have you checked the price of a new iPad Pro?

Mobile systems have democratized content creation not because of price (though that too; not everyone buys the most expensive device) but because they are demonstrably easier to use for content creation than anything that came before them. Source: personal experience with multiple over-65 people for whom an iPad or iPhone is the first internet-connected computer they've ever owned.

"Content creation" isn't usually referring to "family photos and social media". Besides, family photos are made with digital cameras, not mobile apps.

In the context of this thread, the target user of iPad Pro is more than someone taking pictures of their kids and pets on weekends.

As for my opinion on this, I believe in using the right tool for the job, AND using multiple tools to get the job done. Sometimes an iPad Pro might be fine for certain stages of a project, for sketching out backgrounds or initial ideas for a design, and then importing that into another system such as animation pipelines or other applications on desktop or laptop or workstations. Depends what the job is.

I've never met a professional designer who works only on their tablet. Professionals love their workstations, multiple screens, and all the comforts and power of a proper setup. If you're just marking up a PDF, I wouldn't count that as professional work!

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