Cardiff tech firm: 'We'll pay £100k, but can't get staff' • Hacker News Board

Re: Cardiff tech firm: 'We'll pay £100k, but can't get staff'

#61

Post by dvdcxn » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 4:34 PM UTC

mattlondon wrote: post #57

dvdcxn wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're projecting your own perception onto others. Let me raise a counterpoint, the cost of living in Cardiff is vastly less than the, frankly, over inflated prices in London. I'm going to reuse your tone here - who would give up Cardiff to go to London to get the same Salary but pay twice as much for rent? I'd raise another point as well - you're assuming people prefer the art and culture scene in London in comparis…

You're totally correct - its not for everyone (just like Cardiff is not for everyone). London is a big city and comes with big city problems. However, I'd still argue that their offer is clearly not competitive by matching London salaries since they are not getting applicants. For what it is worth, in my personal opinion if you are renting on 100K a year, you're Doing It Wrong. I appreciate some people value the flex…

> However, I'd still argue that their offer is clearly not competitive by matching London salaries since they are not getting applicants.

That's a big inference. Is there not a talent deficit in London too?

It's hard hiring people anywhere right now.

Re: Cardiff tech firm: 'We'll pay £100k, but can't get staff'

#62

Post by Jmcdd » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 4:35 PM UTC

mattlondon wrote: post #10

In the article they say they are offering London salaries. Fine. But Cardiff is not the same as London ! London is huge comapred to Cardiff. Cardiff has about 500,000 people in its urban area compared to 10,000,000 in London, and Cardiff is about 30 square miles compared to almost 700 square miles for London [1]. As such London just has a lot more going on - theatre, museums, nightlife, restaurants, sports, shopping,…

+1 hour commutes on the tube, rude people, diesel fumes, outrageous rental prices. I could go on but I'm at work. This country cares WAY too much about London.

Re: Cardiff tech firm: 'We'll pay £100k, but can't get staff'

#63

Post by repsilat » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 4:36 PM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #50

jfindley wrote: post #13

I am continually amazed at the cynical attempt by hiring managers to try to pretend that the laws of supply and demand shouldn't apply to non-exec level staff. If you can't hire the people you want for what you're offering that should be a signal to pay more, not to whine that you can't force your idea of a reasonable wage on others.

Job offers aren't a liquid market. Publicity is still needed or people won't find out about the job. It can be hard to tell whether the problem is with the job offer or word not getting out. Getting a story in the BBC and on Hacker News might help, though.

Exactly. Actions that spread information make the market more efficient, which is good for the business, their customers and the economy at large, if perhaps not for existing employees.

The same goes for skills/training/policy. Getting the word out that programming is a comfortable, well-paid job that requires no formal education is a huge net win.

Really I can't understand the grandparent's post... The article says "We tried paying more and it's not working" and their answer is "Try paying even more."

Re: Cardiff tech firm: 'We'll pay £100k, but can't get staff'

#64

Post by briffle » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 4:37 PM UTC

mattlondon wrote: post #10

In the article they say they are offering London salaries. Fine. But Cardiff is not the same as London ! London is huge comapred to Cardiff. Cardiff has about 500,000 people in its urban area compared to 10,000,000 in London, and Cardiff is about 30 square miles compared to almost 700 square miles for London [1]. As such London just has a lot more going on - theatre, museums, nightlife, restaurants, sports, shopping,…

Or even better than just increasing salaries.. Let people work remote. Then people who want to live in the big city can (without the commute, which is a plus!) and people that want to live in the small town can, plus everyone in between. What part of being a programmer means they 'need' to be in the office in that town?

Re: Cardiff tech firm: 'We'll pay £100k, but can't get staff'

#65

Post by notahacker » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 4:45 PM UTC

mattlondon wrote: post #10

In the article they say they are offering London salaries. Fine. But Cardiff is not the same as London ! London is huge comapred to Cardiff. Cardiff has about 500,000 people in its urban area compared to 10,000,000 in London, and Cardiff is about 30 square miles compared to almost 700 square miles for London [1]. As such London just has a lot more going on - theatre, museums, nightlife, restaurants, sports, shopping,…

Every other industry manages to find hires in Cardiff on less than London salaries, and programmers aren't that special in terms of cultural needs. A London salary in Cardiff is a lot more disposable income than a London salary in London (or an owned large house rather than a rented apartment), and plenty of programmers that wouldn't start their search for their next job in Cardiff would see that as tempting if they were aware the company was keen to hire people like them at London salaries.

Of course that's part of the reason companies spend budget on headhunters rather than extra salary...

Re: Cardiff tech firm: 'We'll pay £100k, but can't get staff'

#66

Post by dazc » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 4:46 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #56

dazc wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evidence you'd accept, probably not, although you can simply observe the kinds of stories they choose to promote and arrive at a reasonable conclusion.

In other words, no. Since the BBC is routinely and equally criticised for being both pro- and anti-Brexit, it’s reasonable to assume that it’s more likely to be neither.

OK, you have no evidence either so let's accept it's a point of opinion?

Re: Cardiff tech firm: 'We'll pay £100k, but can't get staff'

#67

Post by ljf » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 4:51 PM UTC

dvdcxn wrote: post #30

mattlondon wrote: post #10

In the article they say they are offering London salaries. Fine. But Cardiff is not the same as London ! London is huge comapred to Cardiff. Cardiff has about 500,000 people in its urban area compared to 10,000,000 in London, and Cardiff is about 30 square miles compared to almost 700 square miles for London [1]. As such London just has a lot more going on - theatre, museums, nightlife, restaurants, sports, shopping,…

You're projecting your own perception onto others. Let me raise a counterpoint, the cost of living in Cardiff is vastly less than the, frankly, over inflated prices in London. I'm going to reuse your tone here - who would give up Cardiff to go to London to get the same Salary but pay twice as much for rent? I'd raise another point as well - you're assuming people prefer the art and culture scene in London in comparis…

For housing = yes it is crazy.

For loads of clubs - you'll pay the same. There are hundreds of tiny clubs in London - many offering free or very cheap entry every night of the week. Yes London has a few expensive clubs (that are generally rubbish once you are in if you aren't paying for champagne) - it has loads of great places to see live music, comedy, djs and acts for pocket money. Just pick up a copy and Time Out and you'll def find soemthing you are interested in... 'If one is bored of London...'

Re: Cardiff tech firm: 'We'll pay £100k, but can't get staff'

#68

Post by pjc50 » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

mattlondon wrote: post #57

dvdcxn wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're projecting your own perception onto others. Let me raise a counterpoint, the cost of living in Cardiff is vastly less than the, frankly, over inflated prices in London. I'm going to reuse your tone here - who would give up Cardiff to go to London to get the same Salary but pay twice as much for rent? I'd raise another point as well - you're assuming people prefer the art and culture scene in London in comparis…

You're totally correct - its not for everyone (just like Cardiff is not for everyone). London is a big city and comes with big city problems. However, I'd still argue that their offer is clearly not competitive by matching London salaries since they are not getting applicants. For what it is worth, in my personal opinion if you are renting on 100K a year, you're Doing It Wrong. I appreciate some people value the flex…

.. or for 250k you could get a four bedroom detached house in Cardiff: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-69624...

Re: Cardiff tech firm: 'We'll pay £100k, but can't get staff'

#69

Post by EnderMB » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 5:13 PM UTC

CryoLogic wrote: post #36

Bad Title. Actual article says "up to 100k", as in maximum. I assume most people don't get that offer.

Their job posts say "up to 60k", so it's not just a bad title. It's a blatant lie.

The main question, for me, is what point the article is trying to prove. The cynic in me believes that it's an effort to drive down permanent developer salaries by saying "we already tried to offer above market rates and it didn't work, so we're bringing them down again".

From a .NET perspective, I think you'd be lucky to get £100k a year in a contract role, let alone as a permanent employee. With that said, if you want to earn more than £50k in the south west, your only choice is large multinational company (which are mostly in London), management, or contracting.

Re: Cardiff tech firm: 'We'll pay £100k, but can't get staff'

#70

Post by bshimmin » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 5:20 PM UTC

EnderMB wrote: post #43

So, has MyPinPad actually tried raising their salary offering to £100k? I find it very hard to believe they have, because that would be well-above the average for the area. In relation to standard Web Developer roles, it'd be over double what I could expect in Cardiff for a mid-to-senior level role. Their website currently says "up to £60k", and in my experience companies that say "up to" will rarely go to that numbe…

I agree with everything you're saying, apart from the very last clause - they made it to the "Most Read" on the BBC News web site, so I think they must be pretty good at advertising themselves!