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The backlash against overtourism

economist.com

211–220 of 311 posts

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#211
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would paying people in countries with high birth rates to not have children be exploitative?

I would guess that a lot of the sub-populations with the highest birthrates are disconnected enough from the global economy for money to be meaningless for them.

[deleted]

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#212
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because world population is already forecast to peak and then decline over the next few decades, economic development has already "done something" about this issue, unless you're proposing mass murder or something equally implausible.

Would paying people in countries with high birth rates to not have children be exploitative?

India tried that, more or less, during Indira Gandhi's "Emergency"; a stereotypical example was offering a transistor radio as reward for a vasectomy, though that's extremely mild persuasion in comparison to some of what went on.

The episode is not favourably looked on, in general.

https://www.pop.org/a-once-and-future-tragedy-indias-sterili...

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#213
post #120

Couldn't this be a failure from the European cities in question? While European countries are on the top of the list, the cities? Not that much. The first one is Bangkok. With around 22 million tourists. Paris is third with 18 million. Interestingly, Paris has more things to see, a more extensive metro system (actually waaa..y more extensive). Yet, I seem to be more bothered by tourists in Paris than in Bangkok. In B…

The cities you mentioned were mostly developed recently with a solid plan. The primary purpose of those European cities weren't being a tourist destination. When the Notre Dame was built 800 years ago, they weren't thinking about 21st century tourists. A lot of tourist attractions in European cities were built before the airplane/car era so preparing for a massive influx of tourists probably didn't cross their minds.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#214
post #82
post #79

The elephant in the room, of course, is that tourism helps people think of themselves as part of something bigger. The National Parks, for example, help drive votes for conservation. If you've never set foot in nature, and you've never left your town, other places and their problems will always be somewhere beyond the horizon.

Yeah, I actually just got back from a trip to Spain last week. I saw the "TOURISTS GO HOME" graffiti in Barcelona and Granada. Very weird thing to run into when you're from Canada; we're all about new people and cultures and tourism bucks over here. I don't really feel guilty for wanting to see these famous historic places, though, and I'm not going to feel guilty when I go to Amsterdam in April and Japan in Septembe…

But Canada is gigantic! Other than Niagara Falls, the tourist attractions are either in nature and not world famous (no Instagram-pressure to pick any particular place), in big, modern cities and not particularly focussed to one place (Montreal, Toronto), in old cities where people don't live (centre of Quebec), or in places like ski resorts where if all the hotels are full, it's full.

Amsterdam is large, but everyone only wants to go to the centre, which has mediaeval-size streets. In Barcelona there are a few expected sights. Both cities are also normal cities.

27 million tourists to Canada — 82 million to Spain — 17 million to the Netherlands

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Canada and similar.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#215
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Food is cheap enough we throw away a ton of it and energy could scale significantly further quite easily if there weren't an anti-science political barrier to nuclear.

It should be fun telling the Japanese government that shutting down all of their nuclear plants in the last few years is 'anti-science'.

Why are they shutting them down?

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#216
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people go to see Venice, or to see Venetians? The easy, facile answer is to move all the residents out, turn the old city into Historic Venice Amusements District, build a commuter transit line out to New Venice (with no tourist attractions), and all of its civic services are then paid for by income from the tourist trap. Everyone has ready access to service jobs in the tourism and public safety sectors. If touris…

I don't get it. You're describing Venice as it is today.

Do people not know what they're getting when they go to visit Venice? I don't need to go there to know that I wouldn't want to go there. The Venice people actually might want to visit hasn't existed for hundreds of years. You can't go to that one. You can only go to the ersatz tourism version of it that happens to be co-located geographically.

If demand were high enough, someone could build a replica out in the deserts of southern Nevada or northern China.

I'm not very keen on tourism in general, if you couldn't detect my tone. When it's not part of a parting-cash-from-visitors industry, tourism can actually be quite inexpensive and enjoyable, but all the incentives are for locals to establish such an industry once the numbers rise high enough. The only way around it is to not visit the same places (away from home) too often, and to not go anywhere with too many visitors. Once businesses start to differentiate between those serving locals and those serving visitors, the slope starts slipping.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#217
post #140
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least a few of those have evolving technical solutions. We can all travel in a more sustainable way if we can do full body VR immersion wherever we want to go. We don't need cars if we have fleets of autonomous vehicles to pick us up and drop us off wherever we want to be on a whim. We can all live in the country if you don't need to commute either yourself or property to and from where you live (the infrastructur…

> We can all travel in a more sustainable way if we can do full body VR immersion wherever we want to go You have a peculiar and non-standard definition of the word "travel"

I mean would you ever actually travel if you owned a holodeck?

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#218
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Environmental issues are economic issues.

A totalitarian ideology is one that tries to creep into every aspect of our life, and rejects the exploration of alternative models.

Capitalism has crept into every aspect of my life. I cannot leave my house without people trying to put ideas into my head. I am not free, because of property rights, and there are many laws to prevent me from behaving in c certain ways. I cannot sustain myself from gathering food, because the capitalists have harvested the fish and cut down the trees.

Your freedom is a prison. Don't talk to me about totalitarianism.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#219

Mass tourism is being treated as unique when really, we're discovering that everyone cannot have a "good" standard of living. We can't all go travelling, we won't fit in the same place and we'll boil the earth doing so. We can't all have a car because we'll boil the earth. If we develop EV's and don't boil the earth, they won't all fit downtown. We can't all live in the country, that's not sustainable either. We can'…

If you make energy cheap and non-carbon enough, do you still think this is true? If the promises of the 4th gen nuke plants are realized, or controlled fusion is achieved for example, and electricity hits 5% of current price to produce (VERY hypothetical, I know), then suddenly mitigating the costs of what we do drops dramatically. CCS becomes feasible, as does creating fuel from carbon captured from the atmosphere. Still think we'd boil ourselves?

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#220
post #217
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can all travel in a more sustainable way if we can do full body VR immersion wherever we want to go You have a peculiar and non-standard definition of the word "travel"

I mean would you ever actually travel if you owned a holodeck?

Yes. In fact I would travel as quickly as I could to get the hell away from it as that kind of thing doesn't appeal at all. But I do understand the other side of that point of view.
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