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The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

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Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#41

Post by kasey_junk »

jjoonathan wrote: post #36
kasey_junk wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Give me literally the orders you put in, with a timeline for the hit. Then explain the price points, liquid capital & risk stats you need to make a particular profit. This is basic stuff for actual short sell trades so I presume it is easy to produce in the “hit a CEO” fund space.

I'm no trader, so I couldn't confidently craft a good strategy to exploit an opportunity even if there was a good one. How about you explain why you don't expect this to be workable instead?

Sure. The first rule is that no trade is a good one without specific entrance & exit points. Saying “I can predict a share will go up/down” independent of that specificity & risk profile is a classic example of someone who isn’t realistic in their trading behavior.

The second rule is that shorting is much much harder to get right than going long. Small procedural errors or day long mistimes of the market turn trades unprofitable.

Third, the market for this trade is exceptionally non-desperate people. If you have the money to make this trade happen you have virtually risk free access to trades that keep you fat & happy.

Finally, the riskiest part of this trade is the most hand wavy “hit a ceo” is not a thing I can get a counter party to hedge. It’s quite literally impossible for the vast majority market participants. Even before we talk about the very real likelihood of going to jail let’s talk about the risk of not being successful. See above about short timing.

All told the answer to “why don’t rich guys hit other rich guys to short their assets” can easily boil down to “cause that’s stupid”

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#42

Post by thatcat »

jjoonathan wrote: post #36
kasey_junk wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Give me literally the orders you put in, with a timeline for the hit. Then explain the price points, liquid capital & risk stats you need to make a particular profit. This is basic stuff for actual short sell trades so I presume it is easy to produce in the “hit a CEO” fund space.

I'm no trader, so I couldn't confidently craft a good strategy to exploit an opportunity even if there was a good one. How about you explain why you don't expect this to be workable instead?

It could work, but it would be easier and cheaper to introduce uncertainty in other ways.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#43

Post by onetimemanytime »

bilbo0s wrote: post #29
rdtsc wrote: post #11

I am kind of surprised billionaires and CEOs don't order each others' killings more often. I was doing homework one night and the building next door's top 2 floors were blown up because some banker had a hit placed on his head. So perhaps I have pretty low expectations on what powerful people without morals can do.

> I was doing homework one night and the building next door's top 2 floors were blown up because some banker had a hit placed on his head... Wait. What? Did this really happen somewhere? (Sorry for the question if it's stupid, I just was unaware of all of this.)

Of course it happens, less in USA and only because FBI will send 500 agents to find the killer.

Killing a billionaire or a politician it's hard and risky but that only increases the price. Boom or bust

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#44

Post by 11eleven »

Interesting fact about this case:

At first, the police made statements that there was no signs of forced entry and they were not seeking suspects. This led numerous media outlets to report it was a murder-suicide. After the family conducted a parallel private investigation which discovered contrary evidence, the police finally ruled it a double homicide.

https://www.cp24.com/news/sherman-family-s-lawyer-offers-10m...

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#45

Post by refurb »

mabbo wrote: post #16

This whole case has been crazy. I live about 4km from the home. It went from murder/suicide to murder/murder to maybe the kids did it? to no wait they've hired all these extra detectives to... Anyone's guess really. At this point, short of a confession from someone I doubt we'll ever know.

As someone who works in the pharmaceutical industry, Apotex is a HUGE player and Barry was very well known for being an aggressive and shrewd businessman.

His death came as a shock to a lot of people.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#46

Post by drb91 »

nostromo wrote: post #14
rdtsc wrote: post #11

I am kind of surprised billionaires and CEOs don't order each others' killings more often. I was doing homework one night and the building next door's top 2 floors were blown up because some banker had a hit placed on his head. So perhaps I have pretty low expectations on what powerful people without morals can do.

Is the only thing holding you back from murder lack of funds? If not, why do you think billionaires are any different?

Large companies and those who run them can be both ruthless and amoral. I think it’s a mistake to think the average person’s intuition would apply here.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#47

Post by oh_sigh »

rdtsc wrote: post #11

I am kind of surprised billionaires and CEOs don't order each others' killings more often. I was doing homework one night and the building next door's top 2 floors were blown up because some banker had a hit placed on his head. So perhaps I have pretty low expectations on what powerful people without morals can do.

Billionaires might be too big at that point. I think you'd be more likely to find hits taken out on the regional couple dozen millionaire businessmen.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#48

Post by bilbo0s »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #43
bilbo0s wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was doing homework one night and the building next door's top 2 floors were blown up because some banker had a hit placed on his head... Wait. What? Did this really happen somewhere? (Sorry for the question if it's stupid, I just was unaware of all of this.)

Of course it happens, less in USA and only because FBI will send 500 agents to find the killer. Killing a billionaire or a politician it's hard and risky but that only increases the price. Boom or bust

Yeah, but where did this happen?

I mean, what city? and when?

I'd just like to read about what happened.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#49

Post by majos »

jungler wrote: post #37
rdtsc wrote: post #11

I am kind of surprised billionaires and CEOs don't order each others' killings more often. I was doing homework one night and the building next door's top 2 floors were blown up because some banker had a hit placed on his head. So perhaps I have pretty low expectations on what powerful people without morals can do.

My observation is that elites tend towards keeping around multiple forms of mutual blackmail in their pockets so that they stay in a cease-fire arrangement: e.g. all the conspiracy/cult stories where everyone is made an equal participant in some crime or disturbing ritual. This allows them to avoid simply killing each other(too risky) while still allowing credible threats to power, and gatekeeping contenders who won'…

This is your observation about elites, or your theory? Saying that you've regularly observed elites keeping blackmail on each other in their pockets seems...deserving of elaboration.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#50

Post by jungler »

majos wrote: post #49
jungler wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My observation is that elites tend towards keeping around multiple forms of mutual blackmail in their pockets so that they stay in a cease-fire arrangement: e.g. all the conspiracy/cult stories where everyone is made an equal participant in some crime or disturbing ritual. This allows them to avoid simply killing each other(too risky) while still allowing credible threats to power, and gatekeeping contenders who won'…

This is your observation about elites, or your theory? Saying that you've regularly observed elites keeping blackmail on each other in their pockets seems...deserving of elaboration.

Well, if I had observed all of it, I would be implicated, wouldn't I?

Most of the material comes second-hand. It's not hard to open up a biography of a powerful figure and dissect it.

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