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Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

telegraph.co.uk

261–270 of 278 posts

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#261
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To downvote, please tell us what you don't like about this comment > asdfasdfasdf

I think that could be resolved by downvotes losing their power if they themselves get downvoted.

Maybe, but this seems far more likely to only amplify the majority voice. Especially on a platform like Twitter, this would inevitably be used to suppress a dissenting minority more than it is used to encourage thoughtful explanations. Not trying to shoot down suggestions; moderation is hard.

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#262
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like that it encourages short "bullet points" rather than more involved discussion.

If it required you to make arguments in the form of First Order Logic statements and then did automated validation of them, then I would use it. I'll grant this is probably a niche use case. With the power of modern automated reasoning, and maybe automated fallacy detection, it seems a shame not to use that. Computer assisted argumentation would be a great forum feature.

That makes no sense in practice. The reasoning you employ on a day to day basis is completely outside the realm of what you propose. Realistic everyday reasoning is too complex; it is not satisfactorily represented by first-order logic.

Also, even mathematical proofs are cumbersome to state in a purely formal way. Moreover, many of our arguments hinge more on things like accuracy of assumptions, informal inferences, disagreement on "axioms" and goals, etc, not on formal validity of arguments.

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#263
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different - they mean “follow”. Facebook will send you notifications from threads you’ve commented on.

I don't understand why facebook isn't better at determining the intent of the message: hide messages with "following" "f" or whatever and just subscribe the user to notifications—which they could have done otherwise if the option was made more obvious.

Maybe I don't use FB enough but I hadn't heard of this "f" thing (beyond 'F' being a Call of Duty meme). I imagine it's an unexpected usecase for Facebook and one that would better be served by making a prominent "subscribe to notification" feature, rather than coming up with a machine learning solution. What if the parent comment is a quiz type question for which there are answers A through F? Admittedly it's an edge case but it's an example of how diverse the strange ways people use FB for commenting and discussing.

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#264
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does that say it isn't true? > "As we've been saying for a while, we are rethinking everything about the service to ensure we are incentivizing healthy conversation, that includes the like button. We are in the early stages of the work and have no plans to share right now."

They are not removing the like button.

Typically when one makes an assertion and has a link following it, one assumes that link backs up that assertion. But in this case, I guess you'll just repeat your original assertion?

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be part of some sort of culture war on Twitter. My experience is completely different. I don't follow people engaging in these battles and I don't post things that would be an engagement. It really is smooth sailing from there. Or, in the words of Steve Jobs: "You're holding it wrong." I use the "like" button for bookmarking interesting things. It would be unfortunate if I had to lose that because people on…

"You must be part of some sort of culture war on Twitter." Everything can become a culture war on Twitter. I follow a somewhat abstract modernist composer’s Twitter, which so far has been entirely about music and performance dates, and now it is up in flames because someone has decided to drag this artist into MeToo movement polemics. It has also been pointed out that a lot of discussion forums for the arts and liter…

> Everything can become a culture war on Twitter. I follow a somewhat abstract modernist composer’s Twitter, which so far has been entirely about music and performance dates, and now it is up in flames because someone has decided to drag this artist into MeToo movement polemics.

Then unfollow the guy. Seriously, it's that simple. You have the power to curate your own experience, that's my point.

> It has also been pointed out that a lot of discussion forums for the arts and literature are pretty quiet these days compared to years past, and activity is only boosted when someone posts something politically provocative.

Unfollow

I can't tell you how to cure your favorite subcultures of their bullshit, I'm telling you how to have a pleasant experience on Twitter. If that means your Twitter timeline becomes emptied, you'll have to find new people to follow.

> We live in an unhealthy society where people are looking for a fight, and that desire might outweigh their interest in talking about anything besides politics.

No, that's actually just what your slice of "society" is like. Mine isn't like that, because I curate it not to be like that.

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#266
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "Your proposal would actually make this effect worse, because the victim wouldn't even notice anymore they are harassed." There's a perspective where this is a good thing, but I think I know where you're coming from. I've seen people on the receiving end of these attacks who say they still want to know about it so they know about any tangible threats.

It could be argued though that when it's known that the quote-tweeted person won't see replies to the quoting tweet, there's no point for a harasser to make threats that won't be received.

Generally, I'm always wary of "out of sight, out of mind" type solutions - for any kind of problem. In this particular case, this assumes harrassers only want the original author to know (and even then are interested in the actual outcome of their message).

I think the "shitstorm" dynamics are more complex and there are different motivations for people to take part in one. E.g., it could be simple venting, virtue singalling to peers in your brigade or you sharing the tweet to others in your circle - nothing that needs any perticipation by the original author.

In extreme cases, an author might not realize what is going on until they find outraged articles about themselves in the news.

See the comparable problem of cyberbullying for an example. There, it's often completely irrelevant whether or not a victim knows about the messages that are written about them. Indeed, they can be bullied on online platforms where they don't even have an account. All that is required is for participants in the bullying to know how to access the messages.

Of course, harrassing PMs are a different issue. Here, you can be sure the messages are exclusively directed towards the author and the harm is being done by having the author read them. Blocking those kind of messages would stop the bullying action itself and could work. But then again, this is not so much different from the oldfashioned blocking we already have.

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#267
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think Twitter's move to 280 characters led to a massive improvement in overall quality 280 is a far more reasonable limit than 140, but it's too little, to late. The Twitter "mindset" has already settled and it's not pretty. > There's no where else I can get into a discussion/argument with anyone from Elon Musk In most cases it's an illusion of a discussion. You think you're being heard, but for a person with as m…

To be clear, I agree I and everyone else is just an ant in Musk's anthill of followers, but there's no disputing that he has directly replied to and argued with me, as he has with dozens/hundreds of other random users. Of course, Musk is an outlier in that respect. Twitter's more day-to-day benefits is the serendipity of finding others interested in the same topics as I am. Most of my personal network is not on HN no…

Most of the benefits you ascribe to Twitter aren't exclusive, are far more likely to take place on other media and are, in fact, slowly being eroded by the global and noisy nature of Twitter/Facebook.

On the other hand, Twitter created a new set of serious problems that didn't exist before. Heck, Musk was in court and lost a portion of his control over Tesla because he was on Twitter.

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#268

They should do like HN: keep the button but remove the counter visibility. I would like to see this generalized to all social networks actually. You still get to do an appreciation gesture but without entering the popularity contest. Maybe the author of the post could still see the total. YouTube "dislike" button on comments also works like this, you can dislike but it's not counted. In this case it's a bit stupid si…

For HN, I think up-votes and down-votes counts should be shown individually. The comments with no up-votes and lots of downvotes would go grey - universally considered bad. The comments with lots of up-votes and down-votes, but with net down, indicates controversial opinion but with some support/validity.

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#269
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, I agree I and everyone else is just an ant in Musk's anthill of followers, but there's no disputing that he has directly replied to and argued with me, as he has with dozens/hundreds of other random users. Of course, Musk is an outlier in that respect. Twitter's more day-to-day benefits is the serendipity of finding others interested in the same topics as I am. Most of my personal network is not on HN no…

Most of the benefits you ascribe to Twitter aren't exclusive, are far more likely to take place on other media and are, in fact, slowly being eroded by the global and noisy nature of Twitter/Facebook. On the other hand, Twitter created a new set of serious problems that didn't exist before. Heck, Musk was in court and lost a portion of his control over Tesla because he was on Twitter.

I agree Twitter's low-friction nature has led to reckless and/or inappropriate usage -- Musk isn't even the most egregious case by far, compared to President Trump using Twitter (instead of the traditional longform mediums) to disseminate his thoughts, or colossal mistakes by people like Rep. Anthony Weiner.

But Twitter's benefits do not have to be exclusive to it for Twitter to be a unique service, just as Google and Facebook were not the first or only in their respective categories.

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#270
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be the simple answer for Twitter, but the simple answer for everyone else is to avoid Twitter. It should be clear thst broadcasting yourself thst way is inherently unwise in most cases, and that’s even before you add in the toxic community and “engagement first” platform.

It doesn't help much if I avoid Twitter, when all the major news media outlets think that Twitterers are the vox populi, and use it to source their articles.

this point was made in, of all places, an episode of Parks & Recreation in 2012 where the moderator at a political debate has to read out a typo-filled question posed to the candidates, and remarks mockingly "and this question is from Twitter, which is something we are apparently doing now".
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