Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#181

Post by kurthr » Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 2:10 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #124

mortenjorck wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simple answer to this problem has been clear for awhile: Make responses to quote tweets opaque to the original author. 1. Bob quotes a tweet from Alice he thinks his followers will find enraging 2. Bob's followers reply to the tweet with predictable outrage and abuse 3. (present system) Twitter becomes unusable for Alice as she is flooded with mentions from all of the angry and abusive replies to Bob's quote 3. (…

It might improve things marginally but at this point it's just an arm's race. Furthermore the people who will manage to work around these limitations will also probably be the more radicalized fringe of the community who are probably the most problematic one as well. It will deter the more moderate and give a larger audience to the radicalized. Look at how people on Reddit, 4chan and elsewhere manage to identify Twit…

You had me at,

"people on Reddit, 4chan and elsewhere manage to identify Twitter accounts from anonymized screenshots in mere minutes in order to have a constructive discussion".

I assume you mean doxing and stalking. These are the instigators and manipulators... maybe they're the dangerous harassers, but most of the mob can't be bothered.

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#182

Post by Pharmakon » Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 2:11 PM UTC

mortenjorck wrote: post #99

chrisseaton wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People seem determined to write things on Twitter that are absolutely begging to be taken out of context. Sarcasm, inside-jokes, rhetorical hyperbole, assumptions that everyone is following the same story they are, and so on. I don't know why they do it.

The simple answer to this problem has been clear for awhile: Make responses to quote tweets opaque to the original author. 1. Bob quotes a tweet from Alice he thinks his followers will find enraging 2. Bob's followers reply to the tweet with predictable outrage and abuse 3. (present system) Twitter becomes unusable for Alice as she is flooded with mentions from all of the angry and abusive replies to Bob's quote 3. (…

That might be the simple answer for Twitter, but the simple answer for everyone else is to avoid Twitter. It should be clear thst broadcasting yourself thst way is inherently unwise in most cases, and that’s even before you add in the toxic community and “engagement first” platform.

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#183

Post by weberc2 » Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 2:13 PM UTC

avip wrote: post #156

donatj wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve often thought only being able to down vote with a comment would be a positive. There have been times where I have had posts down voted to hell, and legitimately have no idea why. I think having to tell someone why you were down voting would be an improvement. Maybe even work at so down vote comment doesn’t count if it it self has negative karma.

That's a very interesting idea. Force constructive feedback.

To downvote, please tell us what you don't like about this comment > asdfasdfasdf

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#184

Post by partiallypro » Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 2:13 PM UTC

Jack constantly and consistently proves how out of touch he is with his own company and has listens to the worst advice from those activists he meets.

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#185

Post by accnumnplus1 » Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 2:14 PM UTC

I use 'like' as a sort of bookmark, rather than to tell someone I like their tweet. For that reason it's rare that I 'like' a tweet. I can review my likes as a refined timeline, greatest hits. Guess I'll have to use the bookmarks.

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#186

Post by dwighttk » Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 2:15 PM UTC

donatj wrote: post #96

This seems like a massive mistake to me. I have 300ish followers. I’ll spend 5 minutes or so crafting a Tweet. If it gets one or two likes, that’s positive reinforcement, it feels worth my time. It’s rare I’ll get replies unless I said something someone else vehemently disagrees with. So you’re leaving all my reasons not to use the platform, while removing my reasons to use it. So now best case scenario is a retweet?…

Twitter doesn't even know the difference between RT and Like anymore... Like just means "RT, but lower chance it will show up in your followers timelines"

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#187

Post by dwighttk » Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 2:17 PM UTC

fabricexpert wrote: post #120

donatj wrote: post #96

This seems like a massive mistake to me. I have 300ish followers. I’ll spend 5 minutes or so crafting a Tweet. If it gets one or two likes, that’s positive reinforcement, it feels worth my time. It’s rare I’ll get replies unless I said something someone else vehemently disagrees with. So you’re leaving all my reasons not to use the platform, while removing my reasons to use it. So now best case scenario is a retweet?…

Why bother with only 300 followers? It feels like twitter is only useful if you have several thousand followers, otherwise there's so much noise that you're just talking to empty room.

I have about 200* followers and only about 5 or 6 that actually interact with me with responses or likes. I also block followers who don't seem like they are real people.

*edit... Originally said 300.

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#188

Post by clarkmoody » Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 2:18 PM UTC

There is no way to have a meaningful debate, much less a quality one, in a completely public forum. Half the time, participants don't even agree on the definition of words. Think "privilege" and "rights" for easy examples.

Then quality goes out the window when anybody from the mob can jump into your thread at any point, quibbling with words, accusing you of being Hitler, etc.

To have meaningful debate, you also need people who are seeking truth and are open to having their minds changed. Twitter (or modern politics in general) does not incentivize changing your mind, since anyone can screenshot some old Tweet, and now you're a flip-flopper. As if you're expected to emerge onto social media with a fully-formed worldview.

But it's not like politics has ever been a thoughtful, measured process. There are no good ol' days. The ballot box is a proxy for the musket and bayonet. When you vote, you are literally making an attempt to force the other half of society to do what you want. Life, liberty, and property are on the line, so politics will never be anything but conflict.

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#189

Post by dd36 » Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 2:19 PM UTC

mortenjorck wrote: post #99

chrisseaton wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People seem determined to write things on Twitter that are absolutely begging to be taken out of context. Sarcasm, inside-jokes, rhetorical hyperbole, assumptions that everyone is following the same story they are, and so on. I don't know why they do it.

The simple answer to this problem has been clear for awhile: Make responses to quote tweets opaque to the original author. 1. Bob quotes a tweet from Alice he thinks his followers will find enraging 2. Bob's followers reply to the tweet with predictable outrage and abuse 3. (present system) Twitter becomes unusable for Alice as she is flooded with mentions from all of the angry and abusive replies to Bob's quote 3. (…

I believe the solution is verification of everyone by mailing address or something then a filter for unverified.

Re: Twitter to remove ‘like’ tool in a bid to improve the quality of debate

#190

Post by accnumnplus1 » Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 2:19 PM UTC

donatj wrote: post #118

jobigoud wrote: post #61

They should do like HN: keep the button but remove the counter visibility. I would like to see this generalized to all social networks actually. You still get to do an appreciation gesture but without entering the popularity contest. Maybe the author of the post could still see the total. YouTube "dislike" button on comments also works like this, you can dislike but it's not counted. In this case it's a bit stupid si…

I’ve often thought only being able to down vote with a comment would be a positive. There have been times where I have had posts down voted to hell, and legitimately have no idea why. I think having to tell someone why you were down voting would be an improvement. Maybe even work at so down vote comment doesn’t count if it it self has negative karma.

Careful - the rules say you're not allowed to complain about downvoting. I've made this suggestion myself on a number of occasions in the past, probably different accounts. The quickest approach to problem fixing - the hn approach - have a rule saying don't complain about the problem.