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The Tragedy of Saudi Arabia’s War

nytimes.com

41–50 of 51 posts

Re: The Tragedy of Saudi Arabia’s War

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK notably is the one country that doesn't adhere to the EU's resolution to suspend arms sales to KSA following the Kashoggi killing.

If there is EU resolution to suspend arms sales why is Macron still refusing to abide and continuing to sell weapons to the Saudi regime: https://www.france24.com/en/20181026-macron-france-halt-saud...

Okay, that makes two. Quite sad. Reason is likely that the EU parliament's resolution on this is non-binding; the EU parliament doesn't have the power to just revoke export permissions already granted by member state's governments.

Re: The Tragedy of Saudi Arabia’s War

#44
post #2

In 30 years from now, the US, Canada and UK selling billions of dollars of military equipment, support and training to the saudi regime will be seen as morally equivalent to when the US dropped thousands of tonnes of munitions on Cambodia. Or the use of Agent Orange in Vietnam, My Lai massacre, etc. Worthy of war crimes prosecution in The Hague. How hard is it, really, to take a principled stand and say that the most…

In the UK it was Margaret Thatcher that got the formerly Great Britain into selling arms for oil to the Saudis in a big and very corrupt way. From time to time Parliament has to exercise some serious levels of censorship to make sure that no details of this get discussed in the open.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Yamamah_arms_deal

(Note the detail on 'sheep's eyeballs')

There are currently six thousand employees of British Aerospace (BAE Systems) out there working for the Saudis tinkering with their aeroplanes and keeping their air force at maximal readiness.

What does this entail?

There are no hard facts, any knowledge is strictly 'oral tradition'. However, I have it on reasonable authority (pub chat with people that work for the 'defence sector') that the Saudis have vast underground hangars chock full of the most modern BAE fighter jets. Because the Saudis have 'free oil' they also have these planes running in the hangars, absolutely totally ready to taxi out the door and onto the tarmac at a moments notice, 24/7, 365.25 days of the year.

The UK's RAF only has thirty thousand or so people in it, probably the bulk of them shuffle paperwork and are not front line. The UK Marines only number seven thousand. So this gives an idea of how large a commitment it is to have six thousand or so people from BAE Systems tinkering with planes in these Saudi bunkers.

Civilians in the UK have absolutely no idea about any of this. When they go to buy petrol they are thinking of what snacks to buy and why the other people in the forecourt are such chavs. They are not thinking about how they are indirectly complicit in the arms for oil (and backhanders) 'Al-Yamamah' deal. Or about how this has worked out for Iraq, Yemen or any of the other Saudi neighbours.

Anyway, it gets interesting soon for Saudi Arabia because they now have the Chinese customers wanting their own special favour. Thanks to The Donald the Chinese government want to buy oil in their own currency, the Yuan, bypassing the step of buying dollars first to then pay the Saudis for oil in USD.

Oil isn't the scarce reserve people think it is, supply has to be controlled so that profit can be made. If the Saudis don't want to take Chinese Yuan then they won't be supplying the largest importer of crude oil which is now China, not those fracking Americans. Iran will take the Yuan and I am sure Venezuela (who have the most proven reserves) will do to, given time and if the U.S. don't do a Libya on them. The Saudis certainly are living in interesting times.

Re: The Tragedy of Saudi Arabia’s War

#45
post #11
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trouble is if we don't sell them weapons then they buy them off Russia and China and we have even less influence.

Yes, the good old "If I don't do it, someone else will". I could go and rob the local supermarket with that excuse.

Yeah but the way to stop robbing at the supermarket is police or similar, not you restraining yourself and hoping the bad guys will follow your example.

Re: The Tragedy of Saudi Arabia’s War

#46

Why is this article, which was the top ranked link on my list when I commented, no longer even in the top 200? What was the rationale for the mods (or algorithm) to censor this?

HN guidelines:

What to Submit

On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups...

Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon.

The mods routinely put a penalty score on stuff that doesn't fit that.

Re: The Tragedy of Saudi Arabia’s War

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what are the saudits supposed to do with the 100 billions worth of weapons?

That's their problem. They shouldn't be making it anyone else's problem.

It’s also problematic for the arms dealers.

Re: The Tragedy of Saudi Arabia’s War

#48
I dont mean to be defeatist. What can I actually do (as a guy with no voice - literally due to visa issues) to help here beyond just sending aid (which I am not sure is even getting there). Sending aid still feels like "here's some money so I am no longer guilty"! Any ideas?

Re: The Tragedy of Saudi Arabia’s War

#49

Saudi Arabia's artificial famine in Yemen has been subject to a worldwide media blockade for well over a year.[1][2] This has taken the shape of systematic under-reporting, preposterously low accounts of the death toll - usually treating the hundred of millions of children dead from famine as collateral damage, or avoiding the subject entirely - whitewashing of the motivations of the conflict and obscuring of its tra…

> preposterously low accounts of the death toll - usually treating the hundred of millions of children dead from famine as collateral damage

Quick google puts the population of Yemen at about 28 million. This immediately makes me suspect everything else in your comment is exaggerated or false.

Re: The Tragedy of Saudi Arabia’s War

#50

Saudi Arabia's artificial famine in Yemen has been subject to a worldwide media blockade for well over a year.[1][2] This has taken the shape of systematic under-reporting, preposterously low accounts of the death toll - usually treating the hundred of millions of children dead from famine as collateral damage, or avoiding the subject entirely - whitewashing of the motivations of the conflict and obscuring of its tra…

> preposterously low accounts of the death toll - usually treating the hundred of millions of children dead from famine as collateral damage Quick google puts the population of Yemen at about 28 million. This immediately makes me suspect everything else in your comment is exaggerated or false.

Yeah, big typo there - should have said hundreds of thousands (as indicated in the sources cited, including the OP) - but too late to edit now :)

I'm not sure even World War II had a death toll that high.

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