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Are Narcissists More Likely to Experience Impostor Syndrome?

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Are Narcissists More Likely to Experience Impostor Syndrome?

#51

Post by erikpukinskis »

gowld wrote: post #16

This just smells like using the same word for two different concept, and then conflating them. Thinking that the world only exists for your own benefit, and thinking that you don't fit in the world, both have an aspect of separating yourself from the world, but it's more harm than help to lump them together. If "narcissism" means having any sense of self identity, then the word means very little as a pathology.

A maximum ratio of economic growth to number of controlling board members occurs when all self identity is destroyed, and people allow command structures (at work) and advertising (at home) to dictate their self conception.

So yes, under capitalism any knowledge of the self in the working class is pathological.

Re: Are Narcissists More Likely to Experience Impostor Syndrome?

#52

Post by barberousse »

motohagiography wrote: post #19

It's notable that over the last couple decades, we've moved to where we refer to diabetics as people with diabetes, schizophrenics as people exhibiting symptoms of a variety of mental disorders, disabled as people with disabilities, the obese as people coping with obesity - but narcissists, sociopaths, and psychopaths are still othered, and yet still within the domain of detatched clinical assessment. These are moral…

This. I mean the term Marx would've used here is reification, we are so terrified to confront our actual practices with one another that we'd rather make out the sum of those practices to appear to be an individual pathology, separate and irresolvable from the domain of how I actually raise my children, their emotional cultivation, or treat others, or even how I relate to myself (which tends to loop back to childhood...).

For those who haven't seen it, I'd highly recommend the film Nightcrawler, which is essentially about the enablement of what we call narcissism/sociopathy in our media-driven society.

Re: Are Narcissists More Likely to Experience Impostor Syndrome?

#54

Post by ModernMech »

dsego wrote: post #10

If you are interested in this topic and want to discover more about yourself and maladaptive behaviors and coping mechanisms, a great resource for personality disorders is the “Out of the Fog” website[1]. I also find Sam Vaknin has written a lot of interesting stuff on covert narcissism and the concept of narcissistic supply. (he also has a youtube channel) [2] I feel that covert NPD shares a lot of traits with BPD.…

> I feel that covert NPD shares a lot of traits with BPD.

True in a sense some of the symptoms of mania can be the same, but NPD is much different from BPD in that BPD is a mental illness that can be managed with medication and behavioral/situational adjustments. BPD sufferers can be completely normal people under the right conditions.

Re: Are Narcissists More Likely to Experience Impostor Syndrome?

#55

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

tayo42 wrote: post #26

I never understood the difference between narcisms and self confidence. The same way this article makes it unclear what the difference between being insecure and no self confidence and narcism. Is insecurity a disorder?

You can lack self-confidence and still have empathy for the welfare of others.

Narcissists see other people entirely as threats or opportunities, not as separate individuals with lives and needs of their own.

They literally have no concept of empathy. Their actions are motivated by a need to destroy and devalue any perceived threats to their fragile self-image, while cultivating people, projects, and situations that make them look and feel good in front of the imaginary audience that judges everything they do.

There's no ability to think of others as equals. Everyone is either better or worse than a narcissist - not just in a passing way, but absolutely, infinitely, and obsessively.

Re: Are Narcissists More Likely to Experience Impostor Syndrome?

#56

Post by sdiq »

motohagiography wrote: post #19

It's notable that over the last couple decades, we've moved to where we refer to diabetics as people with diabetes, schizophrenics as people exhibiting symptoms of a variety of mental disorders, disabled as people with disabilities, the obese as people coping with obesity - but narcissists, sociopaths, and psychopaths are still othered, and yet still within the domain of detatched clinical assessment. These are moral…

>That's not a disease, it's poor parenting exacerbated by a culture that enables it.

Any resources to better parenting than this?

Re: Are Narcissists More Likely to Experience Impostor Syndrome?

#57

Post by skedaddle »

tayo42 wrote: post #26

I never understood the difference between narcisms and self confidence. The same way this article makes it unclear what the difference between being insecure and no self confidence and narcism. Is insecurity a disorder?

The difference is that narcissism is grandiose and fragile, based on a need for admiration rather than actual confidence, and fills in for a lack of self-worth. Confidence doesn't prevent you from acknowledging mistakes or flaws. Narcissism does, because their self worth is based on achievement and imagined flawlessness. They think that without these things they would be worthless and unlovable.

Re: Are Narcissists More Likely to Experience Impostor Syndrome?

#58

Post by scarecrowbob »

mxiia wrote: post #41
rrggrr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The diagnosis is not arbitrary and the lack of self-awareness those suffering from NPD experience places them at a disadvantage at self-diagnosis. DSM standards have moved a lot over the years, but NPD has remained largely the same. Ask a child, love-interest or spouse of someone with NPD about the manifestations of the condition on their lives and you'll get a remarkably consistent story. There are two grey areas: F…

> First, NPD in women can be confused with Asperger syndrome. Can you expand on this or provide some more reading for me? I believe my mother has NPD and have, on occasion, sworn she was on the spectrum as well.

I say this as a person who has been abused by a string of relationships with folks who almost certainly have some variation of NPD, not as a clinician. So take this with a big 'ol grain of salt.

A lot of the epistemological problems for people who are pathologically narcissistic come from understanding the difference between how they see things and how other people see things.

Part of the pathology is that they have a filter set up to protect a fragile image of themselves, and so they often don't understand why other people are acting in some way, specifically when other people's actions are only explicable in ways that contradict the fragile image.

They aren't able to take in information that would allow them to modify their behavior because even mild criticism will harm their understanding of themselves, and since that filter is strong they have a hard time knowing the difference between useful criticisms and all the other reasons people say mean or hurtful things to them.

This disconnection appears similarly to other pathologies where people have issues identifying other peoples' motivations.

For instance, most people have a healthy skepticism of other people's negative reactions: even though other people might think I'm a jerk for, say, constantly name dropping some person some behavior, I will probably keep doing it for a bit.

But at some point, I will (hopefully) notice the trend in negative reactions and either rework the name dropping habit so that other people find it interesting/relevant or understand that it's something that I should change about myself. But if I have such a strong filter against criticism of my identity that literally anything could harm that identity, I might not pick up on social cues that would tell me I need to alter my behavior.

I don't know a lot about asperger syndrome, so this is totally my lay-person's interpretation, but basically they seem similar because they both involve dysfunctions with how people parse other peoples' behavior.

Re: Are Narcissists More Likely to Experience Impostor Syndrome?

#59

Post by ModernMech »

wellpast wrote: post #27
bcOpus wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By no means is this a universal truism, but in general if you think you have a Cluster B personality disorder, you probably don’t. If you think you’re the smartest, best person in the world and other people are inferior and should know it... then you might.

What if I think I'm approximately the 100th smartest person in the world? But only when it comes to, say, J2EE? Like I'm the 100th smartest person at J2EE in the world, and everyone else besides the approximately 100 above me are J2EE-inferior. Am I a Narcissist? A J2EE-Narcissist?

A true narcissist thinks they're better than everyone at everything. Trump is the best example of a narcissist I've ever seen. For example:

"I know more about renewables than any human being on Earth."

"I understand social media. I understand the power of Twitter. I understand the power of Facebook maybe better than almost anybody"

"Nobody knows more about debt. I'm like the king. I love debt."

"I think nobody knows more about taxes than I do, maybe in the history of the world. Nobody knows more about taxes.

"Nobody knows banking better than I do"

"I understand money better than anybody."

"I think nobody knows the system better than I do."

"I know more about contributions than anybody."

"Nobody knows politicians better than Donald Trump."

"Nobody knows more about trade than me."

"Nobody knows jobs like I do! Don’t let them sell you out!"

"Nobody in the history of this country has ever known so much about infrastructure as Donald Trump."

"There's nobody bigger or better at the military than I am."

"I know more about ISIS than the generals do. Believe me."

"There is nobody who understands the horror of nuclear more than me."

"Because nobody knows the system better than me. I know the H1B. I know the H2B. Nobody knows it better than me."

"I’m very highly educated. I know words; I have the best words."

"No one has more respect for women than me."

"I have the best temperament or certainly one of the best temperaments of anybody that’s ever run for the office of president. Ever."

"Nobody reads the Bible more than me."

"I’m the most successful person ever to run for the presidency, by far. Nobody’s ever been more successful than me."

Tired yet? Because I could go on all day with these. That's what it's like to be an actual narcissist. If that's not like you, you're probably not a narcissist.

Re: Are Narcissists More Likely to Experience Impostor Syndrome?

#60

Post by ada1981 »

jf- wrote: post #18

Non-narcissist here, apparently. I do find the premise somewhat troubling. If you’re supremely confident and never doubt yourself, even in situations where you should, you could be described as a narcissist. And if you’re lacking in self-confidence, and constantly think you’ll be found out, you’re also a narcissist. And there’s probably narcissists who experience a moderate level of self-doubt in between. It’s more l…

It makes sense if you understand that mental health “diagnosis” has a primary function as a tool for control and status (either boosting the status of the prescriber or reducing the status of the patient).

Primate dominance games.

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