Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms • Hacker News Board

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#241

Post by TimTheTinker » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 3:40 AM UTC

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #212

femto wrote: post #160

This sounds like a niche for a small Pacific island. Islands like Jersey and the Cook Islands tailor their legal systems to cater for those who want a looser financial system. A small state could tailor their laws for those who want to repair things and potentially make a very nice "high tech" economy out of reverse engineering, importing broken stuff and exporting fixed stuff. Copyright holders might try and block a…

I feel like openly running an illegal business out of your embassy is a quick way to get your diplomats expelled.

The business wouldn’t be illegal, because no physical good or money going in or out would be in violation of the host country’s laws. And exactly what happens inside the embassy isn’t under the host country’s purview, since the embassy grounds belong to the diplomat’s country and are subject to its laws only.

If the host country doesn’t like what they suspect is happening inside an embassy, they can go through diplomatic channels to request it be terminated (perhaps with a threat of some kind, like expulsion of the diplomat).

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#242

Post by sjwright » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 3:43 AM UTC

akvadrako wrote: post #239

sjwright wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an iPhone owner, I'm glad that this part has this restriction. I don't mind paying a little bit more for repairing parts that are integral to the security of my phone, because the security of my phone is important to me. It's worth a LOT more than the value of the phone itself. That bears repeating. The security of my phone is worth a lot more to me than the dollar value of the phone.

And this is why the government mandating repairability is dangerous - it infringes on the consumer's freedom to buy locked down products.

I hope you're not being sarcastic, because I wholeheartedly agree. Consumers should be allowed to have choice, and that includes choices that some people think are wrong.

I do think that there's some middle ground between where we are now and where the Right To Repair people are advocating for. Right To Repair should absolutely apply to mechanical devices. And maybe it should even apply to most electronics. But it should not force manufacturers to distribute tools that can "repair" security related features of its devices.

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#243

Post by cptskippy » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 3:51 AM UTC

acct1771 wrote: post #234

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted this comment, just so you know. You've made some good points, food for thought for me.

I agree with his points - logically. That doesn't make me less upset that my chip has wasted potential artificially locked away. Sometimes, how you treat your customers doesn't have to be unfair for it to make a negative impact on customer vibe/relations.

I don't understand how their customers were mistreated.

Tesla produced two identical cars that cost exactly the same to manufacture. They offered one at a cheaper price but with a restriction on the battery capacity. They sacrificed their product margin to offer customers a vehicle they wanted or could afford.

They also said "hey if you want the additional capacity you can pay the difference to unlock it."

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#244

Post by yjftsjthsd-h » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 4:09 AM UTC

stochastic_monk wrote: post #51

bduerst wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If it's not broken, don't touch it" For the longest time Zara used an MS-DOS based POS system, and hey, it worked.

Is POS point of service/sale or piece of ?

The former is a strict subset of the latter.

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#245

Post by ddingus » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 4:11 AM UTC

cptskippy wrote: post #232

jtbayly wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they did. They paid for and received larger capacity batteries in their vehicles that are artificially hampered to a lower capacity.

If you buy a 4 piece of chicken nuggets at McDonalds and they're out of 4 piece boxes so they put your 4 nuggets in a 9 piece box for you, have they cheated you out of 5 nuggets? No. Then why, if you pay for 100 kWh capacity, and they give it to you in a battery capable of 120 kWh capacity are they suddenly cheating you? Did you pay for the higher capacity? No. Did you get the capacity you paid for? Yes. Are you able…

They put 6 nuggets in the 4 nugget box.

You paid to eat 4.

Those other two cost a little extra to eat.

You can't eat them, until you pay for a catalyst that renders them edible.

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#246

Post by ddingus » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 4:12 AM UTC

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #206

cptskippy wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If half your potential customers are unwilling to pay for a higher range option but will purchase a lower range model for a reduced price that still nets a profit for the same fixed battery cost, what do you do? Offer a lower range option. If the cost of retooling a line to make 2 battery types, or setting up a new line from scratch results in a greater cost per unit, regardless of capacity, than 1 line producing the…

I upvoted this comment, just so you know. You've made some good points, food for thought for me.

I upvoted you. And them.

Good, solid discussion. Nice to see.

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#247

Post by voltagex_ » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 4:26 AM UTC

fipple wrote: post #49

This isn’t enough because DRM is actually winning and lots of devices are approaching “unjailbreakable.”

Nah, have a look at what's happening with Apple II cracking. Now that people don't have to worry about going to jail over it, archivists (well, one archivist going by 4am) has automated it so that copies can be preserved for the future.

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#248

Post by kbenson » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 4:41 AM UTC

sjwright wrote: post #237

kbenson wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The implication is that we are correctly enforcing trademark law... Or are you saying that anyone should be allowed to import anything with anyone's brand on it? I think what's being said (well, implied) is that the first-sale doctrine states that those trademark rights are limited , and that by blocking imports, those right may be being violated (specifically, the right to resell). If that's the case, that would m…

I agree with the first sale doctrine. In the cases which have been popularised in the media recently, we're talking about products where a "first sale" has not occurred.

> we're talking about products where a "first sale" has not occurred.

Well, you seemed to distill the initial point to that, and then reject it, but I didn't interpret it as something so specific at all. Essentially it looked like a Straw Man argument.

If the details of this are specifically linked to that case, and there's no indication that it's happening to other types of shipment (a weakening of the original points presented that you responded to), that should have been specifically noted (is it? I don't know. I haven't been following this). Otherwise, you aren't really addressing the same thing as the comment you responded to (unless derefr is specifically talking about this incident, without mentioning this incident. That's possible).

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#249

Post by paulie_a » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 4:42 AM UTC

cweiss wrote: post #155

paulie_a wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then you get hacked. Pos code is junk, and the os they run on is outdated and unsupported. It's amazing any of it actually works.

OTOH - DOS probably has a pretty low vulnerability profile and it's _very_ well known. Most modern POS terminals run Windows 7. Which is more secure?

Win 7 if you are lucky, most run xp. Modern ones run Android or iOS.

But to your point you can basically go back to the archives of the 90s internet and go on a shopping spree of vulnerabilities for dos looking at Trojan/virus code.

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#250

Post by baddash » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 4:43 AM UTC

Anyone have any thoughts about now investing in the industries that this ruling has removed the chains off of? From the article, you got smartphone, home appliance, and home system repairs, and also repairs of motorized land vehicle software. Also, the market for repair tools.