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Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

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Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#151

Post by cronix »

cptskippy wrote: post #115
quadrangle wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ford is basically stopping production of cars anyway as they found that trucks are more profitable. But yeah, don't buy one of their trucks either. But what manufacturer is an alternative? Tesla set up DRM to artificially limit the driving range of their cars until you pay them a ransom to simply let your car drive longer distances!

> Tesla set up DRM to artificially limit the driving range of their cars until you pay them a ransom to simply let your car drive longer distances! That's a lie. Yes they have DRM in place to artificially limit the range of certain models, everything else you said is mischaracterization, misrepresentation, and lies. They saw opportunity in offering different ranged batteries of the same model, however the cost to pro…

> This sort of thing is done all of the time in manufacturing to streamline costs.

A good example is Intel and chip manufacturers locking their cpus to a specific frequency when they are capable of higher so they don't have to manufacture the same cpu with different frequencies.

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#152

Post by thaumasiotes »

cptskippy wrote: post #115
quadrangle wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ford is basically stopping production of cars anyway as they found that trucks are more profitable. But yeah, don't buy one of their trucks either. But what manufacturer is an alternative? Tesla set up DRM to artificially limit the driving range of their cars until you pay them a ransom to simply let your car drive longer distances!

> Tesla set up DRM to artificially limit the driving range of their cars until you pay them a ransom to simply let your car drive longer distances! That's a lie. Yes they have DRM in place to artificially limit the range of certain models, everything else you said is mischaracterization, misrepresentation, and lies. They saw opportunity in offering different ranged batteries of the same model, however the cost to pro…

So, you agree with everything quadrangle said, and that means he's lying?

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#153

Post by JoeAltmaier »

romwell wrote: post #32
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm terrified. I saw John Deere code, and its tortuous. Nobody should try to fool with it without serious study.

How is that fact making you terrified in the context of this discussion?

JD uses desktop simulators, then simulation using real hardware on test stands with recorded data, then field trials, then controlled trials with partner operators. THEN they release to the public.

I'm terrified somebody will think their tweak is 'obviously safe' and share it online and before we know it a combine will run through an elementary school.

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#154

Post by mtreis86 »

chrisshroba wrote: post #75
jedberg wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With a raspberry pi and a bit of python however you can reset this tamper code once the whole assembly is closed. This sentence is interesting to me. It tells me that now mechanics need to learn programming skills to be successful. Software really is eating the world...

Is this true? There are mechanics everywhere, so why would every one need to learn to program something that could be made by one and sold as a commercial (or open source) project? Sure, there are many types of cars and situations that need handling, but there are far more mechanics than that. I'm genuinely asking this because I often question whether it's true that "everyone should learn to program", or it's more li…

In order to change the brakes on the rear of a Volkswagen you need a computer in order to retract the electronically adjusted calipers. This doesn't answer your question but it does exemplify the current situation. Cars aren't purely mechanical devices anymore. Computers play a large role in their operation.

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#155

Post by cweiss »

paulie_a wrote: post #46
bduerst wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If it's not broken, don't touch it" For the longest time Zara used an MS-DOS based POS system, and hey, it worked.

And then you get hacked. Pos code is junk, and the os they run on is outdated and unsupported. It's amazing any of it actually works.

OTOH - DOS probably has a pretty low vulnerability profile and it's _very_ well known. Most modern POS terminals run Windows 7. Which is more secure?

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#156

Post by jjeaff »

jedberg wrote: post #65
nimbius wrote: post #56

As an automotive mechanic, this is awesome. You have no idea how many sensors/controllers in a car can only be reset by violating the DRM. Example: the suspension control computer for newer fords (so far just raptor and newer commercial F series) is separate from the ECU, and if it faults out you need to buy a new $2500 computer and sensor pack. You can, however, replace a commonly blown diode or fuse on the computer…

> With a raspberry pi and a bit of python however you can reset this tamper code once the whole assembly is closed. This sentence is interesting to me. It tells me that now mechanics need to learn programming skills to be successful. Software really is eating the world...

There are very few mechanics who will actually fix parts unless it is for their own vehicle. Most will just quite the price with a replacement part and move on. Even those that know how to do stuff like this rarely will agree to actually repair anything.

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#157

Post by CamperBob2 »

was_boring wrote: post #103
ngngngng wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm convinced most successful mechanics could be successful programmers. The skill set of looking at a problem and debugging until you really understand the architecture and design of what you're looking at is very similar in both fields.

I'm convinced most successful programmers can be successful mechanics for the same reason! Most programmers I know tend to be handy in some way, whether that's fixing their own cars (myself), wood working, or some other skill which requires them to think through problems and work with their hands. I actually view fixing cars as not only a hobby of mine, but as a fall back career should I ever become bored of software…

That's what I thought, and then I fragged a Ferrari engine. Dunning-Kruger is not a river in Egypt...

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#158

Post by aj7 »

komali2 wrote: post #42
eveningcoffee wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is quite horrifying. I am not sure if the elevator ride will be the same again for me.

Other than the space shuttle, by measuring deaths vs distance traveled per person, the elevator is the safest form of transportation. https://www.reddit.com/r/theydidthemath/comments/2qbjw2/requ... though I recommend reading more into it and doing your own math.

How bout deaths per person-trip? After all, you’re mainly going in circles.

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#159

Post by romwell »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #153
romwell wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that fact making you terrified in the context of this discussion?

JD uses desktop simulators, then simulation using real hardware on test stands with recorded data, then field trials, then controlled trials with partner operators. THEN they release to the public. I'm terrified somebody will think their tweak is 'obviously safe' and share it online and before we know it a combine will run through an elementary school.

Ah, so you are afraid people that people who use and repair tractors, and can already break them in many ways that you don't understand (e.g. mechanically), will break them in a way you do understand (using software!), and so you would rather have those ways be illegal to keep you from worrying.

Using your line of reasoning, we should close down repair shops altogether. How can we trust people without engineering degrees work on something like brakes? Before we know it, we'll see buses full of schoolchildren on fire or something.

The fearmongering aspect of "combine running through an elementary school" aside (although perhaps the fact that schools aren't usually located in corn fields and have walls could warrant a reminder), I personally find the general approach of "I am afraid of X, so let's make/keep X illegal" terrifying.

Re: Copyright Office Ruling Imposes Sweeping Right to Repair Reforms

#160

Post by femto »

This sounds like a niche for a small Pacific island. Islands like Jersey and the Cook Islands tailor their legal systems to cater for those who want a looser financial system. A small state could tailor their laws for those who want to repair things and potentially make a very nice "high tech" economy out of reverse engineering, importing broken stuff and exporting fixed stuff. Copyright holders might try and block an import, but they would be fighting a harder battle against "parallel import" laws.

--

Edit: And they could set up a network of embassies around the world, with integrated repair shops. Instead of visiting the Kiribati embassy to get a visa, you might visit to get your device fixed.

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