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As a female engineer, I am not diversity

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Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#91

Post by Konnstann »

Frondo wrote: post #75
sydd wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every one of them? Isnt this the textbook definition of generalization that diversity is supposed to counter?

Well, conservatives in the US have thrown in with a party that typically demonizes people of color, is actively working to disenfranchise them, and has a growing white nationalist element to it. Are there some conservatives who really just care about there being too much government regulation, or whatever? Sure. Looking at the party they rally around and the way it wants to treat people, there sure are some general t…

There's a difference between being a Republican, and being a Conservative. To that end, the Republican party itself is not the monolith that you see in the Democratic party. There still exist factions that resulted in the passage of a lot of Democratic policies while the Reps. controlled Congress during the last presidency.

While I don't support the Republican party, I still hold conservative ideals, primarily regarding regulation and oversight. My social views are fairly liberal, but I don't identify with the progressive movement and intersectional politics.

EDIT: I think diversity is great, but diversity as an end goal is misguided.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#92

Post by spaniard89277 »

SquirrelOnFire wrote: post #35
iagovar wrote: post #26

I just hope this diversity drama never comes to my country. I already work in a very diverse workplace. Both genders and multiple nationalities are represented, and I really don't see what that brigs to the table. I mean, why is diversity good per se? I don't see any correlation between any demographic variable and being a good coworker.

On an individual level, it doesn't improve being a good coworker. On an institutional level, you get a broader set of ideas when you have a more diverse workforce, giving you a better chance at a black swan idea. And frankly, better odds of preventing disaster (Chevy wouldn't have tried to sell a car called the "Nova" in Mexico if they'd had a spanish speaker on the team. No Va means No Go). There's also evidence tha…

> you get a broader set of ideas

I'm sorry but I'm still failing to see it. My experience in my company does not support that hypothesis (and it's really a large one) and the link you provided the only thing that is really proving is that more executive women is correlated with more profitability, which could perfectly be (and probably be) the consequence of other institutional factors.

We do have locals in every market we play, but that's pretty common sense, you have to know the language and cultural references.

But again, I'm not in the US nor I work for a US company. Maybe that has something to do, IDK.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#93

Post by threatofrain »

justaman wrote: post #47

I'm going to say it. The most excluded group in SV are conservative republicans. Its a death sentence to your career to come out as one. If you truly value diversity, their point of view is the most absent from tech.

We should consider the life experience of the homosexual boy or girl, who exists underfoot as a pawn for American Christian moral whim. American Christians constitute such a majority that if they willed something, then a mountain would move, such as tax and finance reform which considers the sacred issue of poverty. Unfortunately American Christians have been focused on sexuality for the last decade, but that's really not fair because it ignores the very real Satanic sexual moral scares that swept the nation not long before that.

One should also consider that those who go to churches may have better professional views than those who don't. There are Christian professional job networks there, and if you aren't in there, maybe sucks for you. You seem to think that all weights considered, you experience net career disadvantage for showing your face as one of the moral majority. I would argue those who aren't in these professional networks don't know what they're missing out on. I would also argue that if you come from a poor Christian background, you should try church hopping. Bay Area churches are bastions of quality and professional life.

One should also consider the privilege that is afforded to churches as a tax-exempt organization that does just about everything, including competing in the daycare services market (do you pay for daycare?). One should consider whether any other group is about to gain that same power of tax exemption, which is arguably one of the most lofty powers in a taxed modern life. This is a privilege cloaked in power.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#94

Post by Will_Parker »

nil-value wrote: post #87
Will_Parker wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even being far left on most measures, being openly critical of intersectionality has become equally problematic (for lack of a better term).

This isn't true. Can you cite examples?

One personal example was pointing out that referring to "white brogrammer culture" is sexist, racist, and insulting. I didn't get fired, but I had to talk to a few people in HR because of it.

Here's a tech CEO claiming: "In today’s climate, failure to express a progressive stance on diversity can make you a professional pariah" https://www.fastcompany.com/40524955/i-accidentally-built-a-...

Being so sure my claim isn't true, can you cite examples of someone criticizing intersectionality in tech, and it not leading to controversy?

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#95

Post by briandear »

trevor-e wrote: post #25

Does anyone else find it weird/disturbing that someone is compiling a list of women engineers and where they work? I understand having a list of influential speakers and such to look up to, but this does not seem to be the case. The author mentioned she has no idea how she made it on there. Link: https://cristinacordova.github.io/women-eng/

That is extremely creepy.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#96

Post by alexashka »

zhangela wrote: post #60
alexashka wrote: post #38

> "I’m not bringing in the diverse perspective that is so critical to the success of any company." Based on what evidence, or even logic, is diversity critical to the success of even some companies? Let alone any company?

Here are a few articles on why diversity is good for business: https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/18/diverse-teams-are-still-re... https://www.inc.com/ian-altman/5-reasons-why-workplace-diver...

:) You may be underestimating the average intelligence of a HackerNews reader.

I am well aware of why some people think diversity is good. Many things are good. Few things are critical.

I'll make a strong claim - there is no evidence, that diversity is critical for the success of any business, on this planet.

It's an easy claim to make because diversity is not a well defined scientific term, hence there can be no evidence. Which was my point - we can hand wave about diversity, inclusivity and all kinds of things - let's just not pretend it's anything but empty hand waving.

Before anyone comes back with saying I'm cherry picking one sentence out of an entire article - it is the foundation of this entire diversity movement. If we agree that we don't know whether diversity is important, we can begin to focus on things that people actually care about - like standards of living and wages.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#97

Post by briandear »

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #71
jriot wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A group of white males can be diverse, we just don't accept it. Do you think a group of white males who went to Stanford, MIT etc... right after high school, are the same as those who joined the military, yet now work in the same company?

They will have a common thread: they all will be recipients of privileged treatment by society. That is indeed a crucially important fact that will share their attitudes and perspectives.

White male coal miners, it could be argued, have had a lot less privilege than a Bobo Stanford grad female accountant. Nancy Pelosi has had a heck of a lot more privilege than some laid off Detroit auto worker.

Elizabeth Holmes, who’s father was Christian Holmes IV, a former Vice President of Enron, was a lot more privileged than pretty much anyone reading this now.

The idea that gender alone determines privilege is ridiculous. It’s far more complex. Yet hiring a pedigreed Elizabeth Holmes would be “diversity” but hiring some West Virginia white male community college grad from a coal miner family would be “Privilege.” That’s ridiculous. Hiring a black Princeton grad is “diversity” but hiring a white University of El Paso grad is “privilege.”

If people really care about diversity, they’d hire for diversity of experience or diversity of thought rather than diversity of biology.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#98

Post by nil-value »

Will_Parker wrote: post #94
nil-value wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't true. Can you cite examples?

One personal example was pointing out that referring to "white brogrammer culture" is sexist, racist, and insulting. I didn't get fired, but I had to talk to a few people in HR because of it. Here's a tech CEO claiming: "In today’s climate, failure to express a progressive stance on diversity can make you a professional pariah" https://www.fastcompany.com/40524955/i-accidentally-built-a-... Being so sure my claim isn…

Can you please explain how reprimanding people referring to "white brogrammer culture" as sexist, racist, and insulting a far-left idea? I would think many would slap some kind of alt-right label on that type of wrongthink.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#99

Post by Will_Parker »

nil-value wrote: post #98
Will_Parker wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One personal example was pointing out that referring to "white brogrammer culture" is sexist, racist, and insulting. I didn't get fired, but I had to talk to a few people in HR because of it. Here's a tech CEO claiming: "In today’s climate, failure to express a progressive stance on diversity can make you a professional pariah" https://www.fastcompany.com/40524955/i-accidentally-built-a-... Being so sure my claim isn…

Can you please explain how reprimanding people referring to "white brogrammer culture" as sexist, racist, and insulting a far-left idea? I would think many would slap some kind of alt-right label on that type of wrongthink.

Sorry, I can't parse your question!

I believe that the term "white brogrammer culture", as a pejorative, is sexist and racist and insulting. (See the article I mentioned for a use of this term.) And I've observed that pointing this out leads to trouble.

Can you give an example of a critique of intersectionality that is acceptable in a tech company? I suspect you can't.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#100

Post by [deleted] »

spaniard89277 wrote: post #92
SquirrelOnFire wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On an individual level, it doesn't improve being a good coworker. On an institutional level, you get a broader set of ideas when you have a more diverse workforce, giving you a better chance at a black swan idea. And frankly, better odds of preventing disaster (Chevy wouldn't have tried to sell a car called the "Nova" in Mexico if they'd had a spanish speaker on the team. No Va means No Go). There's also evidence tha…

> you get a broader set of ideas I'm sorry but I'm still failing to see it. My experience in my company does not support that hypothesis (and it's really a large one) and the link you provided the only thing that is really proving is that more executive women is correlated with more profitability, which could perfectly be (and probably be) the consequence of other institutional factors. We do have locals in every mar…

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