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As a female engineer, I am not diversity

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Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#71
post #44

I do think that pointing at someone's physical body and saying, "They bring diversity because they're X!" is wrong. However, I do think that gender and race have an influence on your thought processes because of who you tend to associate with. In addition, she spent 15 years in China, which is definitely not very common here in the US. That alone means she's going to think somewhat differently than the average engine…

A group of white males can be diverse, we just don't accept it. Do you think a group of white males who went to Stanford, MIT etc... right after high school, are the same as those who joined the military, yet now work in the same company?

They will have a common thread: they all will be recipients of privileged treatment by society. That is indeed a crucially important fact that will share their attitudes and perspectives.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#72

I'm going to say it. The most excluded group in SV are conservative republicans. Its a death sentence to your career to come out as one. If you truly value diversity, their point of view is the most absent from tech.

It's also the most incompatible point of view. They do not want to be around diversity.

Every one of them? Isnt this the textbook definition of generalization that diversity is supposed to counter?

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#73

I'm going to say it. The most excluded group in SV are conservative republicans. Its a death sentence to your career to come out as one. If you truly value diversity, their point of view is the most absent from tech.

It’s a shame, because although I have strong liberal views, healthy skepticism of established, centrally organized programs is something that we as engineers should 100% listen to, and it’s the basis for much conservative economic thought. Unfortunately, people wanting to share that healthy skepticism are now associated with a party whose membership is also increasingly racist, violent, and oppressive of personal freedoms.

SV should think back to first principals: one is not guilty of the stereotypes of that group simply by sharing a subset of their thoughts. I find the New York scene more understanding of this nuance.

All that said, painting oneself as “the most excluded” is an exaggeration that does nobody any favors, and perpetuates this stereotype that conservatives are close minded. Understanding that there are people with needs far more fundamental than career and self-actualization is necessary for one to make well-advised policy recommendations, be they conservative or liberal.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#74

In reference to the point she makes about people not assuming women are developers, I now make it a point to assume two things about most everyone (male and female identifying) that I meet in tech: 1) That they are competent and smart until they definitely prove otherwise to me. 2) That they are technical and interested in technology. It's worked really well for me so far. In practice it means when I meet someone I s…

Along those lines, I don't automatically assume a project manager, sales person, or designer is automatically a moron either, and hopefully they'll do the same for me along those dimensions.

Defaulting to a minimal level of respect is a good strategy and goes both ways.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#75
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also the most incompatible point of view. They do not want to be around diversity.

Every one of them? Isnt this the textbook definition of generalization that diversity is supposed to counter?

Well, conservatives in the US have thrown in with a party that typically demonizes people of color, is actively working to disenfranchise them, and has a growing white nationalist element to it.

Are there some conservatives who really just care about there being too much government regulation, or whatever? Sure. Looking at the party they rally around and the way it wants to treat people, there sure are some general trends that do not speak to a desire to embrace diversity.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#76

I'm going to say it. The most excluded group in SV are conservative republicans. Its a death sentence to your career to come out as one. If you truly value diversity, their point of view is the most absent from tech.

Even being far left on most measures, being openly critical of intersectionality has become equally problematic (for lack of a better term).

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#77
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "diversity" is kinda loosing it's meaning when there's a specific thing to be described as "diversity".

If people who look, think, dress, act, love, or worship differently than they do are "a specific thing", then sure.

A lot of "diversity" is confined to US progressive style who are kinda similar in all of those things. Especially those who think that conservatives wouldn't want to be around them.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#78
post #4

If men and women are completely interchangeable, physically and psychologically, then this article makes a lot of sense. But if women really do have something different (at least on average) to bring to the table, then this women really does add diversity. The purpose of diversity is not quotas, but differences that work together and add something to the whole.

I'm not saying men and women shouldn't work together, but isn't office drama related to sexual tension something to subtract from that complementarity as well? In my working life I've seen (and also experienced) a lot of productivity-eating unresolved sexual tension, including between people who were married/had partners and didn't reeeally want to mate, at least not rationally. I mean, I know men behave like pigs at…

I think it's much less about sex than you think. From my experience, groups of all men and groups of all women are much less productive than a mixed group. "Sexual tension" is a factor in mixed groups, but so is any other kind of conflict.

The following is just my experience and I don't claim to generalize although I will use it as a generalization since it is what I have observed.

Groups of men tend to fall into a pattern. There is a leader, there are people vying to be the leader, and there are "subordinates" who execute directives. Male groups try and get something done. These groups are about organizing people.

Groups of women also fall into a pattern. They tend to plan and analyze and put less priority on execution. In female groups the leader/subordinate dynamic is much less apparent, and it's mostly a dance of trying to understand what everyone is saying and what everyone wants. These groups are about organizing ideas.

Mixed groups obviously have a mix of these approaches. Men and women help each other to reach a balanced state of execution and planning, looking at the details while also keeping the big picture in mind. In addition to that, mixed groups are way more dynamic and adaptable. Patterns emerge contextually within the group, rather than following a standard social protocol. To me, this indicates higher potential for productivity in all areas of a project.

Sexual tension can occur, but I think it's a bit silly to suggest it's a Big Deal in the workplace, that it's something significant enough to single out from every other messy thing that can happen in groups of people. To make myself clear, sexual tension is a separate thing from sexual harassment, which is definitely a problem but is the result of some bad players and not the mixed group dynamic itself.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#79

I'm going to say it. The most excluded group in SV are conservative republicans. Its a death sentence to your career to come out as one. If you truly value diversity, their point of view is the most absent from tech.

Absolutely, people like Peter Thiel need and deserve our support.

On a more serious note, I don't think this is the case. It's highly likely that coming out as pro capitalism, pro lower-taxation, and pro small government will not be career ending. What might be career ending however, is bringing all of your friends, family and colleagues together to declare yourself an out and proud dickhead.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#80
post #79

I'm going to say it. The most excluded group in SV are conservative republicans. Its a death sentence to your career to come out as one. If you truly value diversity, their point of view is the most absent from tech.

Absolutely, people like Peter Thiel need and deserve our support. On a more serious note, I don't think this is the case. It's highly likely that coming out as pro capitalism, pro lower-taxation, and pro small government will not be career ending. What might be career ending however, is bringing all of your friends, family and colleagues together to declare yourself an out and proud dickhead.

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