Live data from Hacker News

Green tea supplements ruined my liver

bbc.co.uk

21–30 of 167 posts

Re: Green tea supplements ruined my liver

#21
I'm in a holding pattern to since more than 6 weeks now because of increased values of the liver. No alcohol, no smoke, always trying to be fit with 3x week sport.

Became suddenly yellow, done the liver-biopsy, nothing came out and still with high liver values (GPT, GOT). None of doctors have a fucking idea of what I have. Done all tests against all the kind of Hepatitis, but all of them were negative.

Re: Green tea supplements ruined my liver

#22

In This is Going to Hurt: Secret Diaries of a Junior Doctor (strongly recommended) there is a part where a consultant has a rant about "natural not meaning safe" and mentions a plant in his garden that would kill you if you sat under it for ten minutes...

I think everyone understands that plenty of things in nature are poisonous or dangerous in other ways.

But it's also reasonable to trust our intuition that food is generally better - i.e., more easily digested and more nutritionally complete - the closer it is to its natural form.

In the linked article, the supplement in question was was far from natural; it was highly refined and concentrated.

So the cause of the damage in this case was not from consuming a natural product, but from taking a highly _unnatural_ product.

If he'd just had ordinary green tea (i.e., dried tea leaves steeped in water) once or twice a day, as millions of people have done for many generations, this would not have happened.

Re: Green tea supplements ruined my liver

#23
post #16

Good grief! Why not drink green tea if you're interested in the positive effects of green tea? Apart from its positive effects it's a fantastic drink.

I wish we knew the equivalent amount of green tea he was taking.

Must be an awful lot... Why do people when they read ‘x is good for you’ or ‘x might cure y’ go completely overboard. We had these ‘fasting might help prevent Alzheimer’ and the articles contain something about 24 hours low calory etc; then I read HN and Reddit and see people, responding to the article, doing 2 weeks water fast saying it is da bomb. There was an article about coffee preventing (...) liver cancer; people responding eating packs of raw coffee beans, drinking liters of coffee etc. All vitamin news is the same; people taking handsful of then dangerous amounts of vitamins. Moderately seems key to all.

Re: Green tea supplements ruined my liver

#26
post #16

Good grief! Why not drink green tea if you're interested in the positive effects of green tea? Apart from its positive effects it's a fantastic drink.

I wish we knew the equivalent amount of green tea he was taking.

Probably slightly more than 6 cups per pill if we assume that each pill contains 500mg catechins. The daily limit for someone who weighs 70kg is around 700mg which means one pill per day is the maximum.

Re: Green tea supplements ruined my liver

#27
post #7
post #3

Did anyone else see a dosage that he was actually taking for these green tea supplements? It seems to be missing from the article but is arguably the most important point. Anything is poisonous to the body in high enough doses. Does the producer of these capsules (apparently Vitacost) specify a maximum dosage? If so, was Jim exceeding this recommendation? Or well under it? Come on BBC.

There is no 'dosage', because—as mentioned in the article—these capsules are classified as food, not medicine: > What is it about green tea supplements that might cause harm at certain doses to some people? Scientists do not know for certain. Because green tea has been drunk for thousands of years, supplements consisting of its concentrated form are regulated in the US and Europe as foods, not medicines. That means t…

Same with water, table salt (NaCl), coffee, pomegranate juice and many other things.

Dose makes the poison, some people are capable of handling more, and some less.

Tea, among other things, has caffeine in it, and enough caffeine will kill you, but other than in pill form, you’ll likely not manage to get to the threshold because you’ll start vomiting way earlier.

It’s possible that there are other compounds harmful at high concentration. And of course, it’s not unthinkable that some of his pills were contaminated with something more dangerous.

But the dosage alone in some cases may explain enough of the damage.

Re: Green tea supplements ruined my liver

#28
post #3

Did anyone else see a dosage that he was actually taking for these green tea supplements? It seems to be missing from the article but is arguably the most important point. Anything is poisonous to the body in high enough doses. Does the producer of these capsules (apparently Vitacost) specify a maximum dosage? If so, was Jim exceeding this recommendation? Or well under it? Come on BBC.

Journalism is not an interrogation nor a transcript; you don't know whether that question was asked and he gave "I can't remember" as an answer.

Re: Green tea supplements ruined my liver

#29
post #11

I remember about Hydroxycut, another weight loss pill from old days. That was recalled due to liver damage. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3952288/

If you want a weight loss tablet that can kill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,4-Dinitrophenol

Seems to kill a couple of people a month in the UK.

Re: Green tea supplements ruined my liver

#30

In This is Going to Hurt: Secret Diaries of a Junior Doctor (strongly recommended) there is a part where a consultant has a rant about "natural not meaning safe" and mentions a plant in his garden that would kill you if you sat under it for ten minutes...

I think everyone understands that plenty of things in nature are poisonous or dangerous in other ways. But it's also reasonable to trust our intuition that food is generally better - i.e., more easily digested and more nutritionally complete - the closer it is to its natural form. In the linked article, the supplement in question was was far from natural; it was highly refined and concentrated. So the cause of the da…

I would recommend reading the book to find out the plant in question and why you would be killed.... :-)
Post reply on HN