Tesla Third Quarter 2018 Update [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Third Quarter 2018 Update [pdf]

#301

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 4:38 AM UTC

MrStonedOne wrote: post #249

andrewmunsell wrote: post #32

One massive advantage that I'm not sure most people realize quite yet is the Supercharger network. No manufacturer (other than Porsche talking about it recently) has actually built out chargers for their cars. Every other electric car has to rely on a broken, sparse, expensive charger network. Blink chargers and some ChargePoint chargers are expensive in many places ($2 an hour!), and Blink is notorious for having br…

As long as they try and control access to them with blacklisting and the like, this is not an advantage. As somebody who will be in the market for a EV in the coming months, I've already discounted Tesla as an option for this reason.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Third Quarter 2018 Update [pdf]

#302

Post by greglindahl » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 5:00 AM UTC

gameswithgo wrote: post #274

rohit2412 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ionity does not follow their own personal standards. It is the CCS standard. Tesla is the outlier who went with its own proprietary standard. And a post builtout agreement is not going to change hardware connectors on a car.

just need adapters.

Yep -- Tesla already shipped a Chademo adapter.

Re: Tesla Third Quarter 2018 Update [pdf]

#303

Post by Multiplayer » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 5:16 AM UTC

rohit2412 wrote: post #232

gameswithgo wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best situation would be if Ionity and Tesla can agree to merge, or share standards so everyone can charge at all of them. But I imagine Tesla will not be interested until Ionity has parity, or nearly so, with them.

Ionity does not follow their own personal standards. It is the CCS standard. Tesla is the outlier who went with its own proprietary standard. And a post builtout agreement is not going to change hardware connectors on a car.

My understanding is that Tesla wanted to use a standard for their build out but the standards committee dragged their feet in order to stall them. In Europe they do use a standard plug.

Re: Tesla Third Quarter 2018 Update [pdf]

#304

Post by hef19898 » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 5:18 AM UTC

deepGem wrote: post #45

andrewmunsell wrote: post #32

One massive advantage that I'm not sure most people realize quite yet is the Supercharger network. No manufacturer (other than Porsche talking about it recently) has actually built out chargers for their cars. Every other electric car has to rely on a broken, sparse, expensive charger network. Blink chargers and some ChargePoint chargers are expensive in many places ($2 an hour!), and Blink is notorious for having br…

Until other companies step up and install DCFC stations everywhere Disclaimer: I am long TSLA I hightly doubt other car companies are gonna do this in a reaonable time frame (3-4 years). They will rely on the dealer network to build out the chargers and suck up the setup cost. Now dealers can potentially finance this with debt and get this done, but I doubt GM or any car company will be able to get consensus from the…

Having a proprietary charging system and network was necessary to get EVs into the market in the first place. A little bit like ICE powered cars. Back the day fuel could ibly be bought at pharmacies.

In that regard Tesla is having, fir now, clear advantage over traditional car makers. Until, that is, these car makers agreed on a common standard for charging their cars. Once that standard is established (supercharger-like solutions) the risk for third parties to set up charging networks comparable to gas stations became very low.

It is great to see Tesla turn a profit. But it seems to have some down sides, quality for example. Lets hope it is sustainable. I for my part am not convinced it is. We will see who is faster, Tesla at getting mass production right or competitors getting EVs developed and sold.

Re: Tesla Third Quarter 2018 Update [pdf]

#305

Post by akvadrako » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 5:25 AM UTC

Brakenshire wrote: post #209

andrewmunsell wrote: post #32

One massive advantage that I'm not sure most people realize quite yet is the Supercharger network. No manufacturer (other than Porsche talking about it recently) has actually built out chargers for their cars. Every other electric car has to rely on a broken, sparse, expensive charger network. Blink chargers and some ChargePoint chargers are expensive in many places ($2 an hour!), and Blink is notorious for having br…

Tesla currently has 400 supercharger sites in Europe, by 2020 Ionity, which is a consortium of Daimler, BMW, Porsche, Ford, Audi and VW, is planning to build 400 sites, with 6 bays each, most with a 350kW charging capacity.

Almost all of the chargers around Europe are already non-Tesla. They aren't yet super, but upgrading should be cheaper than new installs.

Re: Tesla Third Quarter 2018 Update [pdf]

#306

Post by nikofeyn » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 5:32 AM UTC

rconti wrote: post #127

nikofeyn wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when i visited china, it was filled with electric cars from multiple manufacturers, and the fit and finish was just as good if not better than tesla. i don't view tesla as beyond anyone. when other car manufacturers enter the market, tesla might have a hard time keeping up because other manufacturers know how to build cars and not just an okay car with an electric motor.

There are a number of reasons those cars aren't sold in the US, and inability to pass any kind of safety standard is certainly going to be one of them. Of course, the fact that our market is (probably) smaller than theirs with way more red tape (including the aforementioned safety standards) doesn't hurt.

those are all excuses that, in my opinion, causes one to ignore the progress over there. it's dangerous thinking. do you really think that tesla is as safe as other established car manufacturers? (i am aware of their "ratings", which i find hard to believe.)

edit: and you can see my other reply or do a google search to see that china's car manufacturing revolution, including their massive and unparalleled surge into electric vehicles, is something one cannot simply write off. i don't know why people like you hold your opinions in the face of the history of brands like hyundai and kia. kia used to make terrible cars, but is now one of the top auto manufacturers in terms of value, execution, and design. just take a look at the new kia stinger and huge success of the optima model line.

Re: Tesla Third Quarter 2018 Update [pdf]

#307

Post by shaklee3 » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 5:38 AM UTC

dpkonofa wrote: post #252

olivermarks wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be awful if you could only buy Ford gasoline from Ford gas stations? The lock in model is attractive until you think about broader implication, I agree with Evans too that it will be a commodity race to the bottom for recharging, with cost introduced for the power

It's funny you say that because that's the exact reason Superchargers exist. The other chargers in question charge incredibly slowly compared to a Supercharger. Teslas main advantage was that they had to foresight to realize that people wouldn't swap to electric vehicles unless they could have a similar experience to pulling up, filling up your tank, and driving off. A Supercharger is the closest thing - 0 to full in…

20 to 25 minutes is still an eternity compared to gasoline. Yes, it's faster than the other chargers, but that's about the same amount of time an oil change takes. That's something people have to plan around since it's not 3-4 minutes.

Re: Tesla Third Quarter 2018 Update [pdf]

#308

Post by kurthr » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 5:45 AM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #185

andrewmunsell wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eventually, yes, it will become a commodity. But the issue is, someone has to spend a lot of money to build out these chargers. Tesla has a big incentive to do it-- their very survival depended on early adopters willing to buy their car, which also means they need a place to charge it. Being able to go 100 miles from your house before you have to turn around was never going to work for car owners, hence Tesla's initi…

Other carmakers don't need to build their own charging network. It's already being handled for them by thousands of businesses installing standards-compatible chargers. There are 3 new chargers on my block that were installed within the last month. Another 6 scheduled to be installed in my building's garage in the next month. That's in addition to the dozens that are already located in my part of LA. In Santa Monica,…

Most of the ChargePoint and other chargers are 6-8kW. SuperChargers are 100-120kW... they are more than 10x faster to charge. It's the difference between 10min for 100mi 2hours!

That means that even with absurd 6mph traffic that takes 3 hours to get 30mi, you might still finish charging first on the SuperCharger (15min vs 3hours).

Re: Tesla Third Quarter 2018 Update [pdf]

#309

Post by ecpottinger » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 5:47 AM UTC

Gibbon1 wrote: post #146

akira2501 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So sure in theory batteries with more surface area would have greater package efficiencies. There's way more to a battery than just density; however, one of the things that needs to be managed is the heat generated during charging. There might be a case to be made for slightly suboptimal packaging strategies if it makes cooling all those cells that much easier.

I read an article that made the case that lithium of batteries are sensitive to the direction of the heat gradient. Tried looking, can't find it. But the upshot was you want the gradient parallel to the electrode layers not perpendicular. Which means you want to remove the heat from the ends of the cell.

I can't find it either, but I remember reading it.

However, http://jes.ecsdl.org/content/163/9/A1846.full points out some of the details.

Re: Tesla Third Quarter 2018 Update [pdf]

#310

Post by shaklee3 » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 5:48 AM UTC

wmf wrote: post #138

deepGem wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until other companies step up and install DCFC stations everywhere Disclaimer: I am long TSLA I hightly doubt other car companies are gonna do this in a reaonable time frame (3-4 years). They will rely on the dealer network to build out the chargers and suck up the setup cost. Now dealers can potentially finance this with debt and get this done, but I doubt GM or any car company will be able to get consensus from the…

All the other companies combined probably have fewer EVs on the road than Tesla. Building a charger network for 200,000+ Teslas makes sense, but building a similar network for 20,000 BMWs doesn't.

I'm not sure where you get your information, but Tesla has 360k vehicles produced as of Q2 3018. The leaf alone is at 350k, making it "world's all-time best-selling highway-capable electric car in history". I think it's clear that Tesla comment is not true.