Arabic, a great language, has a low profile • Hacker News Board

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#41

Post by tehlike » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 4:52 AM UTC

Scriptor wrote: post #24

tehlike wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Islamic/arabic world could not keep up with the science, unfortunately.

Imagine if during the height of the Greek golden age most of the largest cities were razed to the ground and their populations systematically exterminated. That means Athens as we knew it would have been reduced to rubble. That's what happened during the Mongol Conquests. The fall of Baghdad alone caused at least several hundred thousand people to be killed. The main library, which had collected countless works over…

I am hoping israel is giving the kick the region needs in terms of scientific progress. They are kicking ass, pushing boundaries. For them, it might have more reasons beyond scientific curiosity and capitalism, it might also be existential.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#42

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 4:52 AM UTC

geowwy wrote: post #31

jacobolus wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They [the Chinese Communist Party] think suppression of local languages “pays off” in the form of political consolidation/control. Which it certainly does, at the expense of Chinese citizens and their regional cultures. The Chinese government is by no means unique in this approach. Violent suppression of minority cultures has been a common occurrence in world history.

The RoC also promotes Mandarin, it's not unique to the PRC. Nearly every modern state promotes a national language.

[deleted]

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#43

Post by davewasthere » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 4:54 AM UTC

It is a great language to learn. I speak a bit of Khaleej Arabic, and maybe twenty years ago, could read the characters (I'd struggle a bit now) so could read anything that was transliterated.

But it's logical and very easy. Well worth learning even just the fundamentals. There are a few sounds that us English speakers don't necessarily use natively, but on the whole, it's a lot easier to learn (I find) than say a tonal language.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#44

Post by gamegoblin » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 4:59 AM UTC

thisrod wrote: post #34

amasad wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost all of science and philosophy was done in Arabic during the middle ages so "1.4k years" is an overestimate. Without the Arab and Muslim scholarship much of Greek/Roman wisdom would be lost. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_of_the_Greek_Cl...

> Without the Arab and Muslim scholarship much of Greek/Roman wisdom would be lost. I've just been on a holiday in Venice and Florence, which made me question that standard wisdom, as I learnt more about Venice and Constantinople. The most important effect of those texts, I guess, was the Italian Renaissance. Petrarch seems to have found his books by hunting through old piles in attics, and the Venetians got (looted?…

> The Spanish got their classical books from the Moors. But what did they do with those books, and why does that matter?

Arguably, had a huge affect in kicking off the Renaissance

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_School_of_Translators

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#45

Post by adictator » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 5:01 AM UTC

Scriptor wrote: post #11

mega_behemoth wrote: post #2

Arabic, among many other languages is on a low profile simply because no science is produced in these languages. English won the game because bits and bytes were invented in English. Arabic is indeed a great and very rich language, perhaps more than English, unfortunately, nothing with importance is being produced in Arabic, especially in the last 1.4k years.

The Arab golden age was very important. I am also unclear what you mean by "especially". Are you saying that there was actually more scientific output in Arabic before 1400 years ago?

Not sure what you mean by "very important". But the Arab golden age is a myth. There was very little that was contributed by the Arabs at any time. There is abundant evidence that most "Arab" knowledge was appropriated from Vedic India. Yes, I am talking about Algebra, Arithmetic, Alchemy etc. Not only that, the Arab hordes destroyed most of what they encountered because it was un-Islamic. I would hesitate to call a thing "golden" if that thing actually destroyed what was the center of science, math & logic much before Greeks or anywhere in the world.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#46

Post by Scriptor » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 5:03 AM UTC

tehlike wrote: post #41

Scriptor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if during the height of the Greek golden age most of the largest cities were razed to the ground and their populations systematically exterminated. That means Athens as we knew it would have been reduced to rubble. That's what happened during the Mongol Conquests. The fall of Baghdad alone caused at least several hundred thousand people to be killed. The main library, which had collected countless works over…

I am hoping israel is giving the kick the region needs in terms of scientific progress. They are kicking ass, pushing boundaries. For them, it might have more reasons beyond scientific curiosity and capitalism, it might also be existential.

Definitely. Iran already has more in publications in total than Israel, although they're still way behind when looking at the per capita number. Hopefully this trend continues.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#47

Post by singlow » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 5:05 AM UTC

adamiscool8 wrote: post #33

sdegutis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have proof of the US government kidnapping people and forcing them to learn another language? Edit: it was mentioned in a previous edit of parent comment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_boarding_schoo...

The article says they were private or church funded schools, not the U.S. government.

[edit] sorry re-read and saw that the U.S. government did fund them.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#48

Post by cooper12 » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 5:08 AM UTC

adamiscool8 wrote: post #33

sdegutis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have proof of the US government kidnapping people and forcing them to learn another language? Edit: it was mentioned in a previous edit of parent comment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_boarding_schoo...

If we're also adding on other countries that are not China:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generations

> Children taken to such institutions were trained to be assimilated to Anglo-Australian culture. Policies included punishment for speaking their local indigenous languages. The intention was to educate them for a different future and to prevent their being socialised in Aboriginal cultures.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#49

Post by drchickens » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 5:24 AM UTC

tehlike wrote: post #41

Scriptor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if during the height of the Greek golden age most of the largest cities were razed to the ground and their populations systematically exterminated. That means Athens as we knew it would have been reduced to rubble. That's what happened during the Mongol Conquests. The fall of Baghdad alone caused at least several hundred thousand people to be killed. The main library, which had collected countless works over…

I am hoping israel is giving the kick the region needs in terms of scientific progress. They are kicking ass, pushing boundaries. For them, it might have more reasons beyond scientific curiosity and capitalism, it might also be existential.

They sure are kicking ass killing all those Palestinians alright. I like how you Westerners can just pretend that everything is hunky dory just so that you can rationalize your worldview. All the while we're getting slaughtered and you're paying for the weapons. Bunch of fucking hypocritical cretins.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#50

Post by barry-cotter » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 5:26 AM UTC

Scriptor wrote: post #11

mega_behemoth wrote: post #2

Arabic, among many other languages is on a low profile simply because no science is produced in these languages. English won the game because bits and bytes were invented in English. Arabic is indeed a great and very rich language, perhaps more than English, unfortunately, nothing with importance is being produced in Arabic, especially in the last 1.4k years.

The Arab golden age was very important. I am also unclear what you mean by "especially". Are you saying that there was actually more scientific output in Arabic before 1400 years ago?

Calling it the Arab Golden Age is pushing it. It was a Golden Age of the Islamic world but the high culture, science and philosophy was often communicated in Persian and most of the great thinkers we remember were not Arabs.