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America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

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Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#361

Post by ryandrake »

geebee wrote: post #158
jki275 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't even need algorithms or data structures -- it's a cs101/151 problem at best. When I first saw the problem the solution appeared self evident to me -- I've been coding since the 80s, but still. It's just a simple problem and writing the pseudocode for a question like it ought to be almost second nature to anyone who has done any coding at all. I know people confuse CS and IT/CIS, but even at that, those majo…

I agree, you don't need data structures for fizz buzz. In fact, I think it would be tough to pass data structures if you weren't at the level where you could write fizzbuzz, so it's more or a pre-req. I have trouble imagining what is taught in a CS program that doesn't have a course in data structures and algorithms. How can it be CS? That said... I keep hearing about fizzbuzz, and I'm not sure what I think of the co…

Both candidates are in abundance. I know plenty of “engineers” who can’t do fizzbuz. I also know talented developers who can do fizzbuz for you in 60 seconds, but might not be able to invert your binary tree on a whiteboard in that amount of time. Neither of them are getting past today’s ultra picky interview-hazing rituals. One probably shouldn’t get hired while the other should. Companies seem to have a hard time distinguishing them.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#362

Post by [deleted] »

CodeMage wrote: post #226
firedrakerage wrote: post #11

I do not typically post, but these suggestions seem like genuine improvements to the existing system: "Kerr suggests allocating H-1Bs not by lottery as they are now, but by salary — the more that a company is willing to pay for a foreign worker, the quicker they can get a visa." "A second change would be to allow H-1B workers to apply for permanent residency green cards on their own, without having to be sponsored by…

> Both of these would ensure that we can get smart and talented individuals from outside the US and would drastically improve the ability for the US to compete while continuing to provide broad-based wage increases. As an immigrant, I'm all for better and easier immigration system. As a parent of an 11 year old, I can tell you that what your country really needs is not more smart and talented immigrants, but better e…

[deleted]

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#363

Post by x0x0 »

enraged_camel wrote: post #302
x0x0 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

average salary of h1b holder in bay area is $91k [1]. If startups can't beat that, they don't deserve employees. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/h-1b-visa-workers-earn-six-f...

You seem to have not comprehended the parent poster's suggestion. He wants the highest salaries to be given precedence. This has nothing whatsoever to do with whether startups can afford the average salary.

My point -- communicated poorly -- is the average salaries h1b startup employees are being paid is quite low. There's lots of room for them to grow.

Further, why shouldn't we allocate visas to the most valuable, ie highest paying, uses?

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#364

Post by blihp »

notyourday wrote: post #258
bduerst wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that pay isn't uniform across skilled labor demand, and the purpose of the H1B program is to fulfill demand in the economy. If you set a quota and give to the highest bidder, you're going to see private sector executives and financial roles being filled in cities with high costs of living and competitive wages. Salary is a function not only of demand but also location and industry. This will discrimina…

> This will discriminate against rural and middle America by depriving them of the skilled labor that they need to survive. Rural and middle America needs to get off its collective ass. I have seriously considered moving to one of those places -- alas, while I can get a house cheap and have what I need to survive inexpensively, I cannot get high speed internet even if I pay $1,000.00 per month.

That's not the fault of most of those communities. Many of them have tried to set up their own municipal wifi/ISPs and many (most?) have been stopped cold by legislation and back room deals at the local and state levels by the telco and cable companies. Just read some of the stories about what Google, one of the richest companies on Earth, ran into when attempting to bring high-speed Internet to various cities.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#365

Post by SamReidHughes »

noobermin wrote: post #287
core-questions wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These stats are thrown off by a number of factors that it would be imprudent to get into here. Control for demographic samples similar to the other countries and you'll see a very different picture.

Singapore is a multi-racial country, and it does better than the US on PISA. So is Canada and it does better. And if your point isn't race or culture, but of economic disparity, that is sort of my point.

Singapore is full of Chinese people. Now compare Singapore Malays to Chinese-Americans.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#366

Post by pm90 »

TomMckenny wrote: post #356
fzeroracer wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If no one wants the job, then you're not paying enough or offering enough benefits. Period. The fact that you name health insurance as a problem is a big enough warning sign.

Strange that the government acts with zealous intervention and unconventional ideas to solve worker "shortages" but does essentially nothing to solve extreme housing costs and shortages.

The Government isn’t sending out airplanes to pick up workers and bring them here. The legal immigration system is neither easy to get through nor available to everyone. Stop blaming the Government for all your imaginary problems.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#367

Post by pm90 »

john_moscow wrote: post #353
nimbius wrote: post #347

Theres a ton of talk about skilled immigrants and the american education system, and as a blue-collar automotive mechanic, I have no problem with immigrant doctors and engineers. Where I see the real problem is unskilled immigrants. Take for example a job posting I had up for more than 3 months. I needed a solid mid-level mechanic. oil/air/tires/suspension and electrical a plus. I dont want my apprentices doing this…

> But im frustrated at how Americans have turned trade jobs (plumbing, auto work, electricians, linemen, pipefitters, etc...) into some kind of field that no kid can ever enter lest they be disowned. I think the main reason is that you can easily find an office job where you won't be doing much other than showing up and participating in the office politics, that pays comparably to the jobs you offer. Your salary cons…

It seems more of a prestige thing than anything really. Americans seem to have a low opinion of blue collar workers.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#368

Post by CodeMage »

DataWorker wrote: post #342
CodeMage wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Better access for US citizens to universities and healthcare will not be gained by importing ever cheaper highly skilled labor I believe I already stated that more immigration is not the solution, in my first comment in this thread. > especially labor that like you is here to take what they can, selfishly, before they jump ship. What's with the hostility and personal attacks? I'm paying the same taxes are everyone…

I’m not judging you. You came here because you had personal desires that, noble or not, were not fulfilled. And you will leave for that same reason. That seems like pretty common human behavior to me and so I make no judgements about your morals, but I will point out that a less selfish way of seeing the world might lead you to ask yourself how you can have a positive impact and make your new home a better place. Per…

> I’m not judging you.

Again, I might be wrong, but every time I've read or heard the word "selfish", it was always used as a judgment.

> ask yourself how you can have a positive impact and make your new home a better place

I was under the impression that having a discussion about how to improve things with a group of people who might be in a better position than average to help improve them was also a way of working towards that goal.

> Perhaps that sense of personal responsibility is an American affectation.

This is the third country I've lived in, including my own country of birth. My experience is limited, but it's still more than the average person gets. From that experience, it seems to me to be a generational thing, much more than cultural. It can be seen in different attitudes that different generations adopt towards their employers: generally older generations see their employer as part of their life and a kind of a "family", whereas younger generations view it as a business transaction with severe imbalance of power. I expect same thing happens with patriotism.

There does seem to be at least one cultural aspect to it, though. Americans, as well as citizens of other countries where capitalism has advanced to similar extremes, seem to view things with a sense of "personal responsibility" rather than collective or communal responsibility.

> As one of our leaders once said, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. That seems even more apropos for those who have made the conscious decision to adopt this place as their home.

Why would it seem "even more apropos" for immigrants? I honestly don't understand this logic: why would you expect guests in your home to take better care of it than you do yourself? And I use the word "guest", rather than "fosterling", because not all immigrants come here immediately convinced that this will be their new home.

Here's a truth about a lot of us immigrants: we come here with a hope, but not with a conviction. We would have preferred to live a happy, fulfilled life in our own country and we tried, but for whatever reason we couldn't and we decided to leave. The definition of insanity, as they say, is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Besides, we're not talking about what the country can do for me. We're talking about what the country can do for its future generations. I already have an excellent education. But I have a much bigger responsibility to my own son, than to your country or even my own.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#369

Post by enraged_camel »

x0x0 wrote: post #363
enraged_camel wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to have not comprehended the parent poster's suggestion. He wants the highest salaries to be given precedence. This has nothing whatsoever to do with whether startups can afford the average salary.

My point -- communicated poorly -- is the average salaries h1b startup employees are being paid is quite low. There's lots of room for them to grow. Further, why shouldn't we allocate visas to the most valuable, ie highest paying, uses?

>>Further, why shouldn't we allocate visas to the most valuable, ie highest paying, uses?

For this question to be valid, you first need to demonstrate that someone's value can accurately be determined by their salary and their salary only, and that any difference in salary between two people is the result of differences in the value they offer (as opposed to, say, being able to interview well, or knowing someone high up in the company).

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#370

Post by amrx431 »

max76 wrote: post #74
mohaine wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe on the west coast but here in the Midwest we often have issues finding candidates that can write fizzbuz. We recently had a candidate who's main language was python but failed to even run his code on the command line. Saddly this isnt overly rare.

I use to work in the midwest before moving to the west coast. We had a guy come in for a programming interview. He claimed to have 3 years experience with a programming language we commonly use. We gave him a simple challenge (connect to a database using a database connector, read some fields and update another field based on data from the read fields). We told him it's fine to use google, and left him alone for four…

First I thought thats not straightforward to make a DB update because you know, not everything is loaded into our brains working memory like which package to use, exact syntax etc etc. But then I read that you guys gave 4 hours + Google and I am shocked. BTW are you hiring :)
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