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Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

techcrunch.com

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Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#471

Post by leereeves »

danaris wrote: post #468
leereeves wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? They continue to use their control of the app store for financial gain. The clock on forgiveness doesn't start until the abuse stops.

When you're replying to a comment pointing out that there are, in fact, lots of competing apps, and your comment claiming that they're still evil points to an article from nine years ago, you don't demonstrate much credibility to your claims. I think your clocks are just broken.

I didn't say Apple bans all competing apps. They're selectively "evil". And they've faced so much outrage about the app store, and still do (for example, there's a Supreme Court case pending and a recent lawsuit from Spotify) that they are slightly restrained at the moment.

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#472

Post by lern_too_spel »

ectospheno wrote: post #406
lern_too_spel wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search for places requires knowing your current location to give you the most relevant results. Google would have the same information if you used Google Maps on iPhone. The difference is that on Android, it is possible to set a default maps app that is entirely local, which means that Android wins on privacy for location tracking. (This is before even considering that AGPS location data collection is mandatory on iO…

You can only claim with a straight face that android wins on privacy if you completely ignore google. But since you can only do that in theory land it rings hollow. Besides, most people upload their photos without removing exif data which makes your photo archive the best tracker - every place you went that you cared about at all. Most people also keep pictures forever. You an count the people who opt out of cloud st…

> You can only claim with a straight face that android wins on privacy if you completely ignore google.

The only way you can say iOS wins on privacy is if you listen to marketing instead of what the OS actually does.

1. Aside from losing on location privacy, as I showed above,

2. iOS also loses on message privacy because you can't use a secure messaging system like Signal by default,

3. on tracker and advertising privacy because you can't install a system-wide adblocker like Blokada,

4. on user privacy because you can't install an app without an Apple ID,

5. on developer privacy because you can't develop apps for your own device without an Apple ID (and even worse, without a credit card to give up a verified name and address if you don't want to re-sign your apps every week),

6. and on account privacy because Apple does not allow you to delete your account unlike nearly every other service (even Facebook, which comes a close second to Apple as a bad actor) on the Internet.

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#473

Post by thegayngler »

thefounder wrote: post #103
tomelders wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cook isn't arguing that companies should not be allowed to have access to data. He's arguing that there should be laws in place to prevent misuse and abuses of that data. There's nothing inherently wrong with agreeing to give a company access to your data. But it's absolutely wrong that once you've handed your data over, that company can do whatever it wants with it, with no restrictions, as if they own it.

How is Google abusing the data collected in your context? You gave your consent when you setup your android device, right? You want Google voice or Siri? They surely benefit from all your data.

So basically consent to use your data is a lifetime contract. I think you should be able to delete(I don't mean disable) your data from the platform when you sever ties with a platform.

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#474

Post by paxys »

s3r3nity wrote: post #390
reacharavindh wrote: post #376

Disclaimer: I use Apple products, and trust them slightly more than anything Google/FaceBook/startups because they don't have a business front selling my data to advertisement companies or 3rd party miners(as much as I know of). But, I'm baffled by this PR as if they are the privacy messiah. Didn't they just sellout their Chinese users icloud data to the Chinese government? Yeah. "It's the law, and Apple has to obey…

I struggle with Apple's China situation as well, but the more I turn it over in my head, the more I think it's that Tim is pulled between two parties: 1) His team + Apple Directors that I firmly believe, both in words AND in their action, are strong proponents of privacy of the user 2) The Apple Board + Sharedholders that would revolt if the privacy principles from (1) prevented access to a market of ~1.4 billion peo…

You can make this exact argument for Google or Facebook or anyone else. Simply bringing up "evil shareholders" doesn't absolve any company or individual from criticism.

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#475

Post by orbifold »

andy_ppp wrote: post #42

Seeing as Google pays Apple $12bn to be the default search engine on iOS devices I’m tempted to call hypocrisy here... http://fortune.com/2018/09/29/google-apple-safari-search-eng...

It's very easy to change the search engine to duck duck go.

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#476

Post by nneonneo »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #472
ectospheno wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can only claim with a straight face that android wins on privacy if you completely ignore google. But since you can only do that in theory land it rings hollow. Besides, most people upload their photos without removing exif data which makes your photo archive the best tracker - every place you went that you cared about at all. Most people also keep pictures forever. You an count the people who opt out of cloud st…

> You can only claim with a straight face that android wins on privacy if you completely ignore google. The only way you can say iOS wins on privacy is if you listen to marketing instead of what the OS actually does. 1. Aside from losing on location privacy, as I showed above, 2. iOS also loses on message privacy because you can't use a secure messaging system like Signal by default, 3. on tracker and advertising pri…

Nobody’s stopping you from installing those apps if you want - an offline Maps app, Signal, Firefox with uBlock. It might not be the system default app, but I’m not sure how that’s a fundamental loss of privacy.

Sure, you need an Apple ID, but how hard is it to generate a throwaway account for that purpose? Nobody ever said you had to use one that was tied to your actual identity. Heck you can even use different IDs for the App Store vs. iCloud, but anyone who is extremely privacy sensitive would already not be using iCloud. I don’t know where you read that Apple IDs can’t be deleted - on https://privacy.apple.com/ if you sign in there’s a nice big Delete your Account button.

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#477

Post by ariwilson »

jimbokun wrote: post #362
tinco wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it is cynicism, but I'm pretty sure this is just Apple exploiting a competitive edge, and does not necessarily reflect his own opinion, he is speaking to benefit the company. Of course, it's very nice that Apple made the decision to pick this edge, but they did it because they could not compete with Google on web services. So now they're publicly speaking to try and take the sting out of Google's edge. And th…

Apple is also the only major computing player that doesn't make its revenue primarily off of mining and exploiting user data. Maybe Microsoft, too? Certainly the rest of FAANG have huge financial temptations to misuse their data. So Apple is the one big technology player whose interests are most closely aligned with the consumer in terms of supporting data privacy.

> Certainly the rest of FAANG have huge financial temptations to misuse their data.

I don't get this. FAANG have every interest in protecting user data as their moat is products users want to keep using, which would not be the case if they started sharing user data widely.

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#478

Post by sizzle »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #441
sizzle wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, what do you think about some enforceable "do good" prior consent laws, in the same vein as scientists trying to do research on humans and requiring prior consent, where if you are caught being unethical towards the people on the other end of your work product, then there will be sanctions and steep penalties equal to how severe the work is judged against harming human rights etc. How do you modify the above…

> Why not have some sort of certification process you can do while working that holds the individual accounts to the values of being unethical and will have consequences for not adhering to, at all levels like on the scale of GDPR violations. Oh with regard to this one, I don't think my wording was clear. I meant with regard to testing or challenging to be certified without having a formal CS/related background. As:…

Yeah we are in agreement, background in CS doesn't matter for practicing or entry to field, only your work product would be held to some sort of ethical standard.

Maybe this would also undo some of the effects of outsourcing/offshoring US coding practices due to the need for ethical compliance (at the very least in mission critical systems e.g. vehicle software, hospital software, etc)

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#479

Post by CamperBob2 »

da_chicken wrote: post #308
burtonator wrote: post #258

I'd like to think I'm one of the good guys here. I was one of the inventors of RSS and Atom and worked to push open content and social media. I started a social data search platform named Datastreamer ( http://www.datastreamer.io/ ) which is basically a petabyte-scale content indexing engine. We provide API feeds to search engines and social media analytics companies needing bulk data but don't want to have to build…

And people wonder why I've argued that, at some point, IT needs to be a certified and regulated profession like lawyers, doctors, engineers, nurses, pilots, accountants, electricians, plumbers, teachers, etc. If the future is going to be built using software and data, it's probably going to be essential that the general public have some agency -- public or private -- to safeguard the public interest. It takes years o…

And people wonder why I've argued that, at some point, IT needs to be a certified and regulated profession like lawyers, doctors, engineers, nurses, pilots, accountants, electricians, plumbers, teachers, etc.

Awesome idea. The same governments who are sending RFPs to burtonator's company will then have the ability to decide who is even allowed to work in the industry.

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#480

Post by chickenfries »

burtonator wrote: post #258

I'd like to think I'm one of the good guys here. I was one of the inventors of RSS and Atom and worked to push open content and social media. I started a social data search platform named Datastreamer ( http://www.datastreamer.io/ ) which is basically a petabyte-scale content indexing engine. We provide API feeds to search engines and social media analytics companies needing bulk data but don't want to have to build…

Thanks for doing the right thing.
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