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Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

newyorker.com

81–87 of 87 posts

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#81
post #45

As someone from the UK, where atheism is so uncontroversial that people barely talk about it, it is kindof baffling how much everyone in the USA seems to go on about god, and atheists in the USA seem to have some sort of uphill battle to be recognised as people who could be vaguely competent at anything.

> and atheists in the USA seem to have some sort of uphill battle to be recognised as people who could be vaguely competent at anything. If you are from the UK, what could you possibly know about the US? I'm atheist and have been since 12 or so. My parents are christian. Never had any issues like you described in my entire life. Stop believing exaggerated nonsense from for-profit companies like the new yorker as trut…

I've lived in the US for my entire life, I've live in both the north and south. Traveled large portions of the country. I've also traveled internationally numerous times. To say that Atheists in the US are hated is putting it mildly. There have been research studies into it, and the results were Atheists were one of the most distrusted groups in America and rated lower than Muslims and actual rapists. You can look up the Pew study, The Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Study, The University of Minnesota study and there's more. Every single one disproves your point. If you've been an Atheist in America and haven't seen this, then you're putting on blinders or live in a liberal city.

Edit: Typo. Also real billboard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_atheist...

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#82
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that the most reviled, despised, and shamed group in America "picks fights" against the juggernaut of believers? The mere act of stating we're a non-believer is considered militant. Attending a gathering of other non-believers is considered aggressive and obnoxious. Why would that be? Treat others with respect? Do atheists get any respect from the religious? From our own government? Is it respectful to…

Where do you live? Not the US, surely. I don't recognize the America you're describing at all. Christianity is probably one of the most tolerant religions on the planet. Christians regularly turn the other cheek and love to "live and let live". They only get aggressive when people try to interfere with their ability to practice their religion. If you haven't noticed, there's a war against christianity in the US. Nati…

Oh you...Where are atheists lining up to protest nativity scenes at churches? No one gives a fart about Christianity being practiced, until it infringes on other rights. Nativity scenes? Nothing wrong with them as long as other religions can partake as well. Christians don't tend to like Satanist scenes though.

Christians in America are however attacking abortion rights. They also attack marriage rights, gay rights, transgender rights, help for the poor, human rights, and basically everything that Jesus was for. To claim that the majority of Americans are practicing anything Jesus stood for is quite frankly silly. No one has said kids can't pray in school, what's been said is that you can't force prayer in school unless it's a religious school,in which case religion rules.

This silly "Attack on Christianity" ginned up by Fox News and the religious right is absurd in a country where the vast majority of the country proclaims to be Christian.

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#83
post #73
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Persecuted people tend to kill themselves more often, yes. That's not the evidence that humans are hardwired to be straight white cis Christian males.

Atheists aren't persecuted. They aren't being executed for their beliefs. Christians still are, though, in China, Africa and the Middle East.

Atheists are killed in Africa and the Middle East as well to also include some places in the South Pacific. Basically all the places Christians are persecuted, Atheists are too.

Atheists are also banned from serving in government in 7 US states as part of their state Constitutions, though the laws are unenforceable. Atheists also can't be Freemasons or Boy Scouts. So yeah you're wrong again.

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah its different here in the US. :) Everything is more polarized/political. Everything. > Just the odd individual going off on one on some Facebook post or other net forum from time to time. I discuss theology on a fairly regular basis ;) and philosophy. ;) lets just say there's a fair amount of "ex-Christians" who are looking for something new to latch on. Same old shit (hate/misanthropy), just wrapped in new clot…

> lets just say there's a fair amount of "ex-Christians" who are looking for something new to latch on OK, that makes some sense. I don't think many have "committed" to religion and church in the UK for a century or more, compared to the enthusiasm that appears to exist in the US. Even many of those who openly believed rarely actually went regularly. One formerly quite religious friend who lost faith in his mid or la…

> OK, that makes some sense.

wink.

> One formerly quite religious friend who lost faith in his mid or late 40s seemed quite apathetic for a while after.

runs deeper than that. people who are religious, usually are religious because it made sense. but the corruption in organized religion in the west, is difficult to reconcile with the actual tenets of a faith. so when they abandon their church; they still have the same needs that drew them - but now their is no path forward for fulfillment. Religion (in the purest sense), does have a purpose.

> Thankfully atheist evangelists and militancy aren't a thing here outside of Dawkins. :)

Indeed, you are somewhat blessed in this respect. I've always preferred a good conversation.

> Passport applications insist on it (I think. It's been 8 years or so since my last)

that would seem to be the thing to rectify. Unless your legal system is based on religious code; mandatory religious disclosure would seem to be a bit "impolitic".

> This seems to nail it.

He's a good person. So am I. Good people, prefer the company, of good people. Thus, has it always been.

> Religion, belief, spirituality and atheism has become a personal thing separate and unrelated to organised religions in the UK.

You guys have had a rough time of it. Speaking from a historical/religious perspective.

I'm not surprised by Western Christians jettisoning their "faiths". But it would be nice if they didn't impute the Western failures, say on Eastern or Middle-Eastern Christianity (which are vastly different creatures).

It distorts the mind, to project local problems, on all of humanity. Each culture is different; each takes a different path.

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#85
post #73
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Persecuted people tend to kill themselves more often, yes. That's not the evidence that humans are hardwired to be straight white cis Christian males.

Atheists aren't persecuted. They aren't being executed for their beliefs. Christians still are, though, in China, Africa and the Middle East.

You can't be serious. There are countries where there's literally death penalty for atheism.

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#86
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that the most reviled, despised, and shamed group in America "picks fights" against the juggernaut of believers? The mere act of stating we're a non-believer is considered militant. Attending a gathering of other non-believers is considered aggressive and obnoxious. Why would that be? Treat others with respect? Do atheists get any respect from the religious? From our own government? Is it respectful to…

Where do you live? Not the US, surely. I don't recognize the America you're describing at all. Christianity is probably one of the most tolerant religions on the planet. Christians regularly turn the other cheek and love to "live and let live". They only get aggressive when people try to interfere with their ability to practice their religion. If you haven't noticed, there's a war against christianity in the US. Nati…

Regarding the tolerance to Christianity check out https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_a_Christian_Nation

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#87

I once had a long conversation with a religious relative, and I think it boils down to her not believing that someone can be "moral" without believing that god is watching. Somewhat relevant: Why Did God Create Atheists? There is a famous story told in Chassidic literature that addresses this very question. The Master teaches the student that God created everything in the world to be appreciated, since everything is…

This story is good. The people should learn such thing. My opinion is to learn all of the religion, rather than just one or two. That way, you can learn more. (Of course, religion is not the only thing to learn, but here it is only mention the religion.)

Also, there are good people, and also bad people, and also good+bad people, and also bad+good people, and also other people, regardless of your religion (or if you are atheist). Religion isn't bad, but some people use religion to do bad thing (although people who are not religious will also do bad thing), and also, churches, like other organizations, can be corrupted, but it can also be changed over time.

And then, there is the case that some things can be unclear what is best and what is not good (and sometimes what is good for something is otherwise no good, making it more complicated), and that sometimes is consider based on circumstances which is not in effect, which can sometimes makes it wrong instead of good. (Different philosophers also have different ideas how to do morals/ethics. My own idea does not quite match the stuff I read elsewhere, but I think it is not necessary for me to elaborate on that right here at this time.)

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