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Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

newyorker.com

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Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#61

Post by dakrootie »

intralizee wrote: post #18
lj3 wrote: post #9

Maybe it's because Americans like to be alive and atheists have an alarming tendency to kill themselves. I don't know why, but humans are hard wired for religion. http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.16... http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/155/5/413.full http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26661826 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26110867 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25862549 http://w…

Honestly interesting sources! I feel like you shouldn't be downvoted. I don't agree with how you phrased what you wrote but I understand you're just expressing your view. I'm sort of on the side of well atheists are not treated well in society compared to the majority being religious and makes the statistics that way. My personal experience of myself is contrary to the study. I'm both agnostic & transgender. I suffer…

So much for me to process here, but I’ll give it a try. First let me say I respect and acknowledge you as a human being FIRST. I don’t know which gender you were born into and to which you do desperately want to transition. What I’m confused by is why does it matter? Better said: why does something you know to be the truth (your gender) become real only if those around you acknowledge it?

Maybe im missing something. I’m female and the last thing on my mind at any given second of the day is obsessing whether those around me find me “female“ enough. I’ve had suicidal thoughts but it’s never involved anything having to do with how others perceived me.

Again, trying to understand here and trying not to preach. If you do have a maker, He loves the being you are. The beautiful being He made. You have to be more - much more - than your genitalia or physical appearance. Your comment was highly intelligent and caught my attention. You are someone I’d love to have a conversation with at a party.

So why so much emphasis on how people perceive you if you know, to your core, the truth? Why bring up Trump at all when he’s a tiny, close-minded moron? You have to think you’re something more than a physical body on a rock barreling through black space. I don’t even know you and I’m convinced you are.

Your physical body doesn’t need to be “corrected”. What would it fix? Seriously, you are an intelligent soul in a temporary meat uniform and are probably gorgeous the way you are.

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#62

Post by RichardCA »

lj3 wrote: post #9

Maybe it's because Americans like to be alive and atheists have an alarming tendency to kill themselves. I don't know why, but humans are hard wired for religion. http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.16... http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/155/5/413.full http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26661826 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26110867 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25862549 http://w…

> I don't know why, but humans are hard wired for religion.

As Richard Feynman once said, in order to answer a "why" you need to be in a framework where you allow things to be true.

I'm not sure we're hardwired for religion, but it's pretty clear were hardwired for semiotics. Try to look at something without your brain picking out symbols to assign to everything. This is the thing we do all the time but can't seem to teach computers how to do.

So there is a certain seductive logic in viewing God as just another attempt the brain makes to sort things out on the symbolic level.

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#63

Post by SOMMS »

Long story short - because it's deeply un-American.

Atheism is fundamentally at odds with the values and ideals of the founding fathers and the vision they had for America.

Remember this is a country that was born because "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights".

The idea that all are created in God's image therefore all are equal - is a foundation for why our country exists in the first place. That's a fundamental gene in the American DNA.

Moreover the founding fathers were either A-devout Christians themselves or B-held considerable regard for the Christian religion.

Yes there's the odd quote about the shortcomings of organized religion, Jefferson's Bible, Ben Franklin's religious aloofness - however, the founding fathers were overwhelmingly what most today would consider 'devout' Christians.

Take for example, the members of Constitutional Convention of 1787 (which authored the Constitution) - 96% were Protestant, %4 were Roman Catholic. A fair portion of these were actually trained for ministry.

Or this quote (among many others) of George Washington - "I am sure that never was a people, who had more reason to acknowledge a Divine interposition in their affairs, than those of the United States; and I should be pained to believe that they have forgotten that agency, which was so often manifested during our Revolution, or that they failed to consider the omnipotence of that God who is alone able to protect them." ...in which he literally outlines his abhorrence to the omission of God from the American consciousness...because of what God has done for it.

This is not to say atheism is 'wrong' or religion is 'right' or vice versa.

It's just to say that American and Christianity have been historically intertwined.

It should be self evident why atheism is considered a taboo here.

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#64

Post by threatofrain »

Johnny555 wrote: post #57
threatofrain wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe churches also explicitly teach people that atheism is dangerous.

I grew up in a Christian family, went to church and/or bible school every Sunday, but was never taught that atheism is dangerous. I was taught though that atheists are going to hell and that I should try to help them to come to believe in god, but I wasn't taught to fear them or feel that their belief is dangerous.

Do you church hop? Many protestant pastors will denounce the behavior, but I think it's quite interesting.

Also, did you never study apologetics in Bible School?

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#65

Post by Johnny555 »

threatofrain wrote: post #64
Johnny555 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a Christian family, went to church and/or bible school every Sunday, but was never taught that atheism is dangerous. I was taught though that atheists are going to hell and that I should try to help them to come to believe in god, but I wasn't taught to fear them or feel that their belief is dangerous.

Do you church hop? Many protestant pastors will denounce the behavior, but I think it's quite interesting. Also, did you never study apologetics in Bible School?

I don't even know what that means. My family went to 3 different churches while I was growing up, changes were all due to moves but we stuck with one church once we were in an area. I don't know how they chose a church, friends/family/coworkers, I suppose.

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#66

Post by threatofrain »

Johnny555 wrote: post #65
threatofrain wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you church hop? Many protestant pastors will denounce the behavior, but I think it's quite interesting. Also, did you never study apologetics in Bible School?

I don't even know what that means. My family went to 3 different churches while I was growing up, changes were all due to moves but we stuck with one church once we were in an area. I don't know how they chose a church, friends/family/coworkers, I suppose.

Apologetics is a field of Christian discourse involving reactions to and study of cultural, intellectual and scientific movements from the Christian perspective.

Hopping around to different churches is an interesting experience many don't have, so I'd encourage it, especially if you attend more days than Sunday (the most boring day to go), and especially if your family has been deciding what church you attend your whole life.

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#67

Post by Johnny555 »

threatofrain wrote: post #66
Johnny555 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even know what that means. My family went to 3 different churches while I was growing up, changes were all due to moves but we stuck with one church once we were in an area. I don't know how they chose a church, friends/family/coworkers, I suppose.

Apologetics is a field of Christian discourse involving reactions to and study of cultural, intellectual and scientific movements from the Christian perspective. Hopping around to different churches is an interesting experience many don't have, so I'd encourage it, especially if you attend more days than Sunday (the most boring day to go), and especially if your family has been deciding what church you attend your wh…

Oh, I haven't been to a regular church service in decades, not since I left home for college.

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#68

Post by masonic »

SOMMS wrote: post #63

Long story short - because it's deeply un-American. Atheism is fundamentally at odds with the values and ideals of the founding fathers and the vision they had for America. Remember this is a country that was born because "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights". The idea that all are created in God's image therefore all are equal - is a foundation for why ou…

  Moreover the founding fathers were either A-devout Christians themselves or B-held considerable regard for the Christian religion.
Actually, a plurality of them were Deists, specifically disbelieving any divinity of Christ.

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#69

Post by Grue3 »

lj3 wrote: post #9

Maybe it's because Americans like to be alive and atheists have an alarming tendency to kill themselves. I don't know why, but humans are hard wired for religion. http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.16... http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/155/5/413.full http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26661826 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26110867 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25862549 http://w…

Persecuted people tend to kill themselves more often, yes. That's not the evidence that humans are hardwired to be straight white cis Christian males.

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#70

Post by i_made_a_booboo »

Johnny555 wrote: post #50
i_made_a_booboo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mildly hilarious how Japan is a ridiculously safe place crime-wise and has pretty high moral standards and is pretty much entirely atheist. They visit temples because they visit temples and it's just expected that that's what you do because everyone does it ala being Japanese circular logic. The same circular logic is responsible for their moral standards. Turns out it's not God thats responsible for morality, it's t…

Japan...has pretty high moral standards Well.... that depends on your morals, Japanese pop culture still sexualizes young girls... and the trains have dedicated "female cars" so woman can avoid groping in the regular cars. Women are distinctly in a lower class than men. Japan is a very clean and safe country, but I wouldn't hold it up as a beacon of morality.

And Americas full of drug addicts, school shootings and cops killing black teenagers. And that's despite all those Christians, their morals and their prayers.

And as it turns out women and black people were distinctly lower class than men until a few decades ago. Religion didn't change in that time. But the social norms that various communities enforce on each other did.

And that's my whole point. Religion has nothing to do with it. It's the same dynamics that exist in every group that are what cause the phenomenon of people behaving themselves according to a set of rules.

My one and only point with my example was not the absolute morality of one place vs another but the fact that a place basically devoid of all religious belief doesn't automatically devolve into debauchery, chaos and total amorality. They seem to think that's what will happen. It doesn't but that doesn't stop them believing that.

People arguing the point completely miss the fact that humans don't care at all what's true. They care who's side your on and that's all they try to figure out.

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