Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

newyorker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 87 posts

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#11

Post by JeanMarcS »

Johnny555 wrote: post #4

I once had a long conversation with a religious relative, and I think it boils down to her not believing that someone can be "moral" without believing that god is watching. Somewhat relevant: Why Did God Create Atheists? There is a famous story told in Chassidic literature that addresses this very question. The Master teaches the student that God created everything in the world to be appreciated, since everything is…

Reading the article, I started thinking of how to put my thoughts as clear as possible.

But your quote is exactly that !

If history showed a long list of bad things made only by atheists while believers were only virtuous and kind, well, I could eventually understand.

Sadly it’s not the case.

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#12

Post by JeanMarcS »

lj3 wrote: post #9

Maybe it's because Americans like to be alive and atheists have an alarming tendency to kill themselves. I don't know why, but humans are hard wired for religion. http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.16... http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/155/5/413.full http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26661826 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26110867 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25862549 http://w…

Maybe it’s because they feel isolated and socially rejected ?

In France, there is a lot of atheists or agnostics, but they live as well as any

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#13

Post by bryanlarsen »

bachmeier wrote: post #7
std_throwawayay wrote: post #3

Atheism also seems to wrongly be a catch-all for things like Agnosticism which is nothing like Atheism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism "Agnosticism is the view that the existence of God, of the divine or the supernatural is unknown or unknowable. An agnostic can also be one who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic."

I basically assume that when someone makes a statement about atheism, they're actually talking about agnosticism. Those who claim to be atheists are hostile to being told their beliefs actually represent agnosticism, and when providing them a link to this article[1], they have claimed the author is wrong. That is an indicator that most participants in discussions of atheism have not spent a lot of time studying the s…

I'm not sure what kind of agenda that author has, but that's a pretty bogus argument.

Using his argument, the two very different words "amoral" and "immoral" would mean the same thing.

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#14

Post by GavinMcG »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #5
std_throwawayay wrote: post #3

Atheism also seems to wrongly be a catch-all for things like Agnosticism which is nothing like Atheism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism "Agnosticism is the view that the existence of God, of the divine or the supernatural is unknown or unknowable. An agnostic can also be one who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic."

Atheism is the "lack of a belief in God". It's not the belief that there is no God, it's the lack of a belief that there is one. All agnostics are also atheists.

You're conflating belief and knowledge. Agnosticism has to do with epistemic access to God – that is, knowability. One can deny knowability while having a belief in God, and therefore being a theist. It just requires acknowledging that one's belief is and always will be unfounded – a matter of faith.

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#15

Post by memebox3v »

lj3 wrote: post #9

Maybe it's because Americans like to be alive and atheists have an alarming tendency to kill themselves. I don't know why, but humans are hard wired for religion. http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.16... http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/155/5/413.full http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26661826 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26110867 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25862549 http://w…

In the uk its a non thing. 50% of my friends are atheists. Its such a non issue that it hardly ever comes up. The first time i had a problem is when i couldnt have a church wedding because I couldnt morally profess a belief in a christian god. My mum in law was very very unhappy. In fact ive felt socially threatened amongst my developer friends when I have been inable to say that I am atheist (I think in a certain sense God is the world and in another sense it also silly to make a claim for or against god, since I believe its impossible to say anything for certain). That opinion gets me ridiculed!

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#16

Post by aidenn0 »

bachmeier wrote: post #7
std_throwawayay wrote: post #3

Atheism also seems to wrongly be a catch-all for things like Agnosticism which is nothing like Atheism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism "Agnosticism is the view that the existence of God, of the divine or the supernatural is unknown or unknowable. An agnostic can also be one who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic."

I basically assume that when someone makes a statement about atheism, they're actually talking about agnosticism. Those who claim to be atheists are hostile to being told their beliefs actually represent agnosticism, and when providing them a link to this article[1], they have claimed the author is wrong. That is an indicator that most participants in discussions of atheism have not spent a lot of time studying the s…

The majority of self-described athiests that I know are global athiests under some variation of the Ockham's Razor argument of section 5 of that.

The particular example of intelligent life in another galaxy is rather odd, since we actually do have reasons to believe such life exists inasmuch as we have pretty good ideas about how life came about on earth and a lot of evidence that similar conditions should exist elsewhere.

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#18

Post by intralizee »

lj3 wrote: post #9

Maybe it's because Americans like to be alive and atheists have an alarming tendency to kill themselves. I don't know why, but humans are hard wired for religion. http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.16... http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/155/5/413.full http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26661826 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26110867 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25862549 http://w…

Honestly interesting sources! I feel like you shouldn't be downvoted. I don't agree with how you phrased what you wrote but I understand you're just expressing your view. I'm sort of on the side of well atheists are not treated well in society compared to the majority being religious and makes the statistics that way.

My personal experience of myself is contrary to the study. I'm both agnostic & transgender. I suffer daily from my gender dysphoria and how society treated me in life because of my gender dysphoria. I was conditioned growing up in the anti-gay era of time and I wasn't able to transition young. I'm not in the financial situation to really do anything to help myself and approaching my 30s. I've been seeking suicide by the legal process of going to Switzerland & in my birth country Canada (I grew up in the USA). The main drive for suicide has been acknowledging the possibility of how a lot of the bad experiences in my life, maybe influenced by a higher power, is wanting me to die and so my sex can be corrected. Society isn't really getting better for people like me with the trump administration and with the recent news showing to limit people like me further. I sort of come to conclusion the atmosphere now of things are getting better isn't really true but just a moment in time where things were more positive but can easily be reversed. I don't even know what to really trust anymore but the point is that maybe my life has been so poor because I should die because an all loving God would correct my problem; which made me miss out on a lot in life.

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#19

Post by outworlder »

bachmeier wrote: post #7
std_throwawayay wrote: post #3

Atheism also seems to wrongly be a catch-all for things like Agnosticism which is nothing like Atheism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism "Agnosticism is the view that the existence of God, of the divine or the supernatural is unknown or unknowable. An agnostic can also be one who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic."

I basically assume that when someone makes a statement about atheism, they're actually talking about agnosticism. Those who claim to be atheists are hostile to being told their beliefs actually represent agnosticism, and when providing them a link to this article[1], they have claimed the author is wrong. That is an indicator that most participants in discussions of atheism have not spent a lot of time studying the s…

I would get annoyed because of all the labeling. It is unnecessary.

There is no name for lack of belief in invisible aliens in my garage.

Re: Why Are Americans Still Uncomfortable with Atheism?

#20

Post by foobarbazetc »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #6
codeulike wrote: post #2

As someone from the UK, where atheism is so uncontroversial that people barely talk about it, it is kindof baffling how much everyone in the USA seems to go on about god, and atheists in the USA seem to have some sort of uphill battle to be recognised as people who could be vaguely competent at anything.

Even here on the left coast, I find it surprising how many people are unwilling to admit their atheism, out of some sense of social threat. I was talking to someone from the UK last week who I thought put it really well - what's happening in the US right now is the final throes of a generation who desperately wants to return to their mental image of the past, unwilling to see their own racist, xenophobic, self-absorb…

The weirdest part about all this is that Obama was deeply religious (though the black church is scary or something), but Trump is obviously an atheist.

Yet they’re treated exactly the opposite by the evangelicals. It’s a bit of a mindfuck until you realize it’s not really about religion at all.

Post reply on HN