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AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

cnbc.com

251–260 of 289 posts

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#251

That’s well and good and all...but it’s in Amazon and Apple’s best interest to deny everything.

I still haven't heard a compelling argument for that. The only plausible reasons I've heard for Apple and Amazon lying about that are because they're being pressured by the American and/or Chinese governments. And if that's what's going on they're really going the extra mile with these calls for retraction.

I don't really buy it, if they really wanted to gaslight Bloomberg they could do it more subtly and without putting themselves in such an awkward position if strong contradicting evidence came to light.

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Option 4: Bloomberg is working on another story and the government is trying to taint their credibility by feeding them false information, so nobody will believe them when the real story comes out. (I just wanted to point out all options)

Option 5: A journalist that really wants to land a scoop has a hunch that something is going on, and collects all the rumors and theories about hardware hacks, blurs the lines between speculation and facts, creates a plausible narrative that is too good to pass, and somehow persuades the editor that a dozen sketchy rumors must be enough to run a story.

That's why editors exist. Then, the journalist could also have been fed information that was fed to their leaky source in order to find out who the leaker would be.

OTOH, no experienced intelligence professional would leak information they are not absolutely sure other people have.

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#253
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily received, but at least seen them and verified that the described thing actually exists. If they don't even have a single frigging photo that they can show us (up until now they have only shown CGI renderings that they fabricated themselves showing how it might have looked), then that seems to imply that they haven't done any due diligence.

> Not necessarily received, but at least seen them and verified that the described thing actually exists. If they don't even have a single frigging photo that they can show us (up until now they have only shown CGI renderings that they fabricated themselves showing how it might have looked), then that seems to imply that they haven't done any due diligence. I don't know about you, but I certainly couldn't get a photo…

If you're not holding that motherboard in your hands, then you definitely "don't have accurate information to base a story on" if that story is about inserted extra hardware - the story Bloomberg reported relies on analysis of that motherboard. If you find an anomaly in the dev server but can't open it up to look at the motherboard, then you can blow the whistle that something weird is happening, but you're not qualified to be a source for what Bloomberg claimed unless you have seen some evidence about the actual hardware.

As you say, reporting is about cross-checking documents. In this case, the relevant documents would be the technical details of that malware - photos of the motherboard with the inserted hardware, schematics and analysis of where and how the inserted chip connects to the "real" parts, dumps of the firmware alterations, microscopy analysis of the extra chip after decapping it. Instead, Bloomberg provided "this is where it could have been" CGI illustration and "this is how the mechanism might have been" description of the process. All details about the attack seem to be made up by Bloomberg, they're not based on any real hard data from their sources.

This implies that none of their sources had (or provided to Bloomberg) sufficient detail to assume that this is what happened - if the sources say "well, there was a major supply-chain attack but we're not giving the details" then that's not sufficient to report what the Bloomberg article did, making up the details without knowing them. If the sources provided enough detail to Bloomberg, then this is the point where Bloomberg should release those details to the public.

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bloomberg claims that there is evidence floating around - unless they're bluffing, they should be able to show evidence of at least one such motherboard, instead of CGI graphics showing how it might look. Have they seen any actual hard evidence? Noone is disputing that the described attack vector is possible, but if Bloomberg has not properly verified if it actually has happened , then their article becomes a lie; an…

These were supposedly targeted attacks. Why would Bloomberg have access to AWS and Apple internally designed boards?

Because the sources in AWS and Apple who reported this issue to Bloomberg have access to the boards they're reporting about?

What details and evidence about these boards have these sources provided to Bloomberg? Are there any details or evidence?

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bloomberg claims that there is evidence floating around - unless they're bluffing, they should be able to show evidence of at least one such motherboard, instead of CGI graphics showing how it might look. Have they seen any actual hard evidence? Noone is disputing that the described attack vector is possible, but if Bloomberg has not properly verified if it actually has happened , then their article becomes a lie; an…

These were supposedly targeted attacks. Why would Bloomberg have access to AWS and Apple internally designed boards?

"It should be taken as fact because I can't prove it."

How about no.

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#257

There should be hundreds of thousands or millions of these hacked motherboards, and nobody has found a single one despite hardware geeks worldwide searching like it was Willy Wonka's final golden ticket. This story was bogus, it most likely came from a ton of rumors that got conflated, hence why they had to go with anonymous sources as opposed to any physical evidence. I'd be surprised if Bloomberg has any credibilit…

"There should be hundreds of thousands or millions of these hacked motherboards" No, the boards would be selectively hacked. And we know it happens because 'we' do it as well. Surely there is evidence floating around but it's also unlikely that companies would want to admit the breach. I kind of believe Apple and Amazon though, there's too much risk if they were to be caught lying. This is a weird one ...

Would the pr team even know if it was true

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#258
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There should be hundreds of thousands or millions of these hacked motherboards" No, the boards would be selectively hacked. And we know it happens because 'we' do it as well. Surely there is evidence floating around but it's also unlikely that companies would want to admit the breach. I kind of believe Apple and Amazon though, there's too much risk if they were to be caught lying. This is a weird one ...

You just need ONE board to be able to prove it. Surely Bloomberg or their sources can get their hand on a single piece?

[deleted]

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it likely isn't the IC saying it so much as a whistleblower saying.

Does that somehow mean they should be less skeptical and not require more evidence before publishing the whistleblower assertions as fact? Do whistleblowers, by asserting that they are whistleblowers even without evidence, deserve more trust in this scenario for some reason?

It doesn't reduce the requirement for evidence, but it's a very realistic "why" when it comes to why they haven't produced any physical evidence.

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#260
post #67
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how should have Apple and Amazon acted if they were indeed truly innocent? Their behavior seems to be very consistent with what they are saying.

Maybe let's let the justice system figure things out?

that's interesting, I didn't consider the possibility the government would start this story to possibly justify searching tech premises...
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