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Linus Torvalds Back in Charge of Linux

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Re: Linus Torvalds Back in Charge of Linux

#61

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #40
rs23296008n1 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having read her twitter posts she's no lady. Some of the most toxic vitriol available. She would easily fail her own code of conduct rules.

That's actually pretty typical of crusaders, IME. Most of them don't actually want to end the Lord of the Flies pecking order. They just want to shift around who is on top crapping on people and who is getting crapped on. Generally speaking, they want to do the crapping (along with some highly arbitrary set of "their people") and whomever currently has privilege they would like to see getting crapped on. Their "visio…

This is where it's at.

Also this ... palaver about equality is, well, nonsense simply because, well, people, on the whole, can't be nice.

Not in any longterm, meaningful way.

Make no mistake, if the current system where replaced tomorrow by one dreamed up by some other set of people, it would come with it's own complete set of bugs.

Re: Linus Torvalds Back in Charge of Linux

#62

Post by [deleted] »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #61
DoreenMichele wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually pretty typical of crusaders, IME. Most of them don't actually want to end the Lord of the Flies pecking order. They just want to shift around who is on top crapping on people and who is getting crapped on. Generally speaking, they want to do the crapping (along with some highly arbitrary set of "their people") and whomever currently has privilege they would like to see getting crapped on. Their "visio…

This is where it's at. Also this ... palaver about equality is, well, nonsense simply because, well, people, on the whole, can't be nice . Not in any longterm, meaningful way. Make no mistake, if the current system where replaced tomorrow by one dreamed up by some other set of people, it would come with it's own complete set of bugs.

[deleted]

Re: Linus Torvalds Back in Charge of Linux

#63

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

ry_ry wrote: post #7
carlmr wrote: post #3

I really wonder what's going to happen to Linux once Linus is gone. I think we've seen now that just a week after he took a break the community started falling apart rapidly.

Kernel fragments into a dizzying array of forks, TrueLinux, RealKernel, Linux Core, LinuxPlus and DogeKernel fight for supremacy on obscure making lists and github issue trackers. The public remains largely unaware. Huge PR battles over which logo to use erupt, somebody sneaks backdoors into the majority of the kernels. Somebody else backdoors the backdoors. Pretty soon over half the code base consists of backdoors a…

I've been keeping a plain text file of quotes for 15 years. I hadn't put anything in it since April this year.

Thank you.

Re: Linus Torvalds Back in Charge of Linux

#64

Post by jf- »

roenxi wrote: post #60
m_mueller wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, so I can't really find fault with the CoC itself, but the motivation as described in your link is indeed questionable, though I'd say worthy of discussion: > Studies have shown that organizational cultures that value meritocracy often result in greater inequality. People with “merit” are often excused for their bad behavior in public spaces based on the value of their technical contributions. Meritocracy also nai…

I had a long and fun argument with someone the last time the kernel came up on this exact subject. A very interesting observation is that in the extreme "meritocracy" 100% implies that people with merit should be excused for their bad behavior in public spaces based on the value of their technical contributions. Any political system comes with trade-offs. Meritocracies fundamentally excuse bad behavior, democracies f…

> A very interesting observation is that in the extreme "meritocracy" 100% implies that people with merit should be excused for their bad behavior in public spaces based on the value of their technical contributions.

That’s a non sequitur. There’s no reason that a meritocracy must allow bad behaviour from high performing contributors. Linus’s behaviour has been accepted, even lauded by certain members of the community, but I’ve always seen it as brash, arrogant and off putting. The simple fact is that people who have power tend to abuse that power, but that has nothing to do with meritocracy as a concept.

Re: Linus Torvalds Back in Charge of Linux

#65

Post by Foobarcomments »

pokemongoaway wrote: post #35
m_mueller wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who believes meritocracy is racist and sexist Is it bad that nowadays I've trouble identifying whether this kind of categorization is redpillers bile or an accurate representation of an increasingly dominant extreme left? Would you have a quote from that lady, and if correct, how did she get in the position of writing Linux COC?

It is extremely easy to look this up... Just check the screenshot in my above comment, Twitter, the post-meritocracy site, Coreline's blog, etc... When Coreline was Corey, he was not an activist - and was not given such power. When he was a man he worked in a meritocracy. Now that he's changed his gender he wants a "post-meritocracy." This is not hateful to say; it is merely an account of history. And if you're going…

As concerned as I am on the authoritarian left's stifling of debate nowadays, the author's gender change is irrelevant. I interpret you mentioning their gender change as ill-intention.

Re: Linus Torvalds Back in Charge of Linux

#66

Post by aninhumer »

jf- wrote: post #64
roenxi wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a long and fun argument with someone the last time the kernel came up on this exact subject. A very interesting observation is that in the extreme "meritocracy" 100% implies that people with merit should be excused for their bad behavior in public spaces based on the value of their technical contributions. Any political system comes with trade-offs. Meritocracies fundamentally excuse bad behavior, democracies f…

> A very interesting observation is that in the extreme "meritocracy" 100% implies that people with merit should be excused for their bad behavior in public spaces based on the value of their technical contributions. That’s a non sequitur. There’s no reason that a meritocracy must allow bad behaviour from high performing contributors. Linus’s behaviour has been accepted, even lauded by certain members of the communit…

>The simple fact is that people who have power tend to abuse that power, but that has nothing to do with meritocracy as a concept.

Except that by definition, meritocracy creates a power dynamic which can be abused in this way. Those with "merit" are trusted and respected more than those without. This means that complaints about their behaviour are more often ignored or dismissed. And even when bad behaviour is too blatant to ignore, the punishment is often lesser, for fear of chasing away their "merit".

In theory, one could define "merit" in a way that recognises behaviour alongside technical contributions, but in practice that is rarely how the term is interpreted by tech communities.

Re: Linus Torvalds Back in Charge of Linux

#67

Post by DoreenMichele »

aninhumer wrote: post #66
jf- wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A very interesting observation is that in the extreme "meritocracy" 100% implies that people with merit should be excused for their bad behavior in public spaces based on the value of their technical contributions. That’s a non sequitur. There’s no reason that a meritocracy must allow bad behaviour from high performing contributors. Linus’s behaviour has been accepted, even lauded by certain members of the communit…

>The simple fact is that people who have power tend to abuse that power, but that has nothing to do with meritocracy as a concept. Except that by definition, meritocracy creates a power dynamic which can be abused in this way. Those with "merit" are trusted and respected more than those without. This means that complaints about their behaviour are more often ignored or dismissed. And even when bad behaviour is too bl…

In theory, one could define "merit" in a way that recognises behaviour alongside technical contributions, but in practice that is rarely how the term is interpreted by tech communities.

Linus is an incredibly influential figure in tech, having written both Git and Linux. He has decided to work on his own behavior.

This could be a watershed event in that regard.

Re: Linus Torvalds Back in Charge of Linux

#68

Post by jf- »

aninhumer wrote: post #66
jf- wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A very interesting observation is that in the extreme "meritocracy" 100% implies that people with merit should be excused for their bad behavior in public spaces based on the value of their technical contributions. That’s a non sequitur. There’s no reason that a meritocracy must allow bad behaviour from high performing contributors. Linus’s behaviour has been accepted, even lauded by certain members of the communit…

>The simple fact is that people who have power tend to abuse that power, but that has nothing to do with meritocracy as a concept. Except that by definition, meritocracy creates a power dynamic which can be abused in this way. Those with "merit" are trusted and respected more than those without. This means that complaints about their behaviour are more often ignored or dismissed. And even when bad behaviour is too bl…

Life creates a power dynamic which can be abused in this way. This is getting ridiculous. Have some minimal set of rules so that people, including important people, can’t be outright nasty to each other and leave it at that. There is absolutely no need for all this ideological baggage.

Re: Linus Torvalds Back in Charge of Linux

#69

Post by williamdclt »

pelario wrote: post #13
carlmr wrote: post #3

I really wonder what's going to happen to Linux once Linus is gone. I think we've seen now that just a week after he took a break the community started falling apart rapidly.

Git seems to be doing fine after Linus left it...

True, but Linus is not the leader of Git since 13ish years. He gave the reins to Junio Hamano before it became such a large and influencial project, and Linux is way larger and way more influencial now. There's way more Linus "baked in" the kernel than in Git, I would say

Re: Linus Torvalds Back in Charge of Linux

#70

Post by aninhumer »

m_mueller wrote: post #39
chroma wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s one: https://twitter.com/CoralineAda/status/874642259672801280 > “Meritocracy” is just thinly veiled misogyny and white supremacy propping up fragile cis het white men’s egos. Or https://twitter.com/CoralineAda/status/1029952846492565504 > “Reverse racism” is such a weird phrase for “justice”. Or https://twitter.com/CoralineAda/status/823064825366360065 > Why didn’t anyone punch the reporter giving the nazi ai…

OK, so I can't really find fault with the CoC itself, but the motivation as described in your link is indeed questionable, though I'd say worthy of discussion: > Studies have shown that organizational cultures that value meritocracy often result in greater inequality. People with “merit” are often excused for their bad behavior in public spaces based on the value of their technical contributions. Meritocracy also nai…

>I just always have trouble imagining the end game of that kind of thinking - even in Stalinism, people with higher abilities were selected for various more demanding tasks.

Rejecting meritocracy doesn't mean not acknowledging ability, it means not structuring power hierarchies around it.

Those most able should be chosen for tasks because those involved in the work agree collectively, without the coercion of power dynamics, that it's best to assign them that task.

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