iPhones are hard to use • Hacker News Board

Re: iPhones are hard to use

#431

Post by chrishannah » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 9:27 AM UTC

nabla9 wrote: post #429

The problem is the "perpetual novice" sentiment. Smartphones are sold with the underlying assumption that 'user friendly' equates to zero training or learning. The idea is that UI is so intuitive that you can simply pick the phone up and use it. It's clear that this novice strategy has upper limit respect to the number of features. If you spend $500 on a device that you use more than your car or computer, maybe you s…

> If you spend $500 on a device that you use more than your car or computer, maybe you should spend 6-12 hours to learn it. People take courses in woodworking, knitting, why not in smartphones.

I completely agree with this. And if you're not willing to learn how to use a device, why would you buy one anyway?

Re: iPhones are hard to use

#432

Post by guy98238710 » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 9:28 AM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #237

aetherson wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mainly use Android, have an iPhone, and the differences are constantly tripping me up. To the point where the claim that iPhones are user-friendly feels intuitively completely wrong to me. I always want to point to the wifi thing, or the lack of periods and commas on the keyboard, or the terrible home-screen arrangement/customization stuff as ironclad proof that the iPhone is less user-friendly. But that's not actu…

I went from iPhone to Android and struggled but now I have serious trouble using iOS devices. I'm now convinced the greatest UI innovation this century is the Back button. If IBM PC keyboards had a big dedicated "back" key the world would have a been a much better place.

They have the "Esc" key.

Re: iPhones are hard to use

#433

Post by jscholes » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 9:35 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #375

fit2rule wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't read the article? Even though its buried there, in the system prefs, people who need to change such settings still cannot find them. That's the point: the UI is already confusing for everyday use, and we honestly expect better of Apple.

> You didn't read the article? Even though its buried there, in the system prefs, people who need to change such settings still cannot find them. They can always look them up (online), set them, and forget them. Better than having all such settings front and center over more commonly used settings.

> They can always look them up (online), set them, and forget them.

But they don't. You're a reader of HN. It is fairly obvious that you're the sort of person who, at a point when you need to accomplish something you don't know how to accomplish, will assume that it's possible and start with research. But there are a lot of people out there who will start with the assumption that not being able to see their phone screen so well anymore is just something to put up with. The entire point of this post and discussion is that Apple may not be providing the best experience for those users for whom it would never even cross their mind that changing the text size on their phone is possible.

Re: iPhones are hard to use

#434

Post by philliphaydon » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 9:38 AM UTC

edejong wrote: post #393

philliphaydon wrote: post #178

My mum is 68 now. I first got her a windows phone. I taught her how to make calls. That was it. Then a month later I got a string of text message. Hello Son Is This Working ? She worked out how to send texts. I upgraded her to an old iphone. I sent it to her in the mail. She worked out everything including how to take photos. I told her about LINE and she found the App Store and downloaded it. Her phone died so I bou…

Both my parents had a similar experience migrating from Microsoft Windows to Macos. It literally opened a new world for them.

OH, I got my mum a Macbook Air, best thing I ever did, I talked her through setting up Team Viewer, I setup her icons so she had only what she needed. Then I've never done anything more. She finds all her recipes online, does emailing, finds her tv shows. Mum and Dad no longer argue over the TV now.

The old Windows computer caused lots of arguments and angry text messages with me. I'm not a fan of mac os, but best thing ever for my parents.

Re: iPhones are hard to use

#435

Post by NeedMoreTea » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 9:41 AM UTC

chrishannah wrote: post #430

I can see a few good points being made here. But I don't think if someone can't use a device properly, that it's the manufacturers fault for making it hard to use. Also, I think there are many points being made that are either down to people being told incorrect information, or them just being plain wrong. Regarding using Spotlight to search for apps/files: "Find a spot in Springboard (what’s that?) with no apps or f…

> I don't think if someone can't use a device properly, that it's the manufacturers fault for making it hard to use.

It absolutely, completely is. What pointers to the hidden features, or more information, are built into the very trivial onboarding phones provide? What quick reference leaflets are in the box? What brightly printed card with a QR code to the downloadable beginners guide, or full manual is there? What getting started app or link is there on the home screen?

None at all.

My microwave, stereo, car, kettle and lawnmower all included more get you going guides, links, sometimes PDFs, sometimes proper paper guides. For trivial often single purpose items.

Search for a user guide for a phone, or Android/iOS and you'll get shitty third party sites and/or programming guides for developing apps. Apple happen to have a really comprehensive one, that's not exactly mentioned anywhere, that you can download into books. They could include it on all phones for zero effort and loss of a tiny amount of storage.

Tech manufacturers should be deeply embarrassed.

No need to include a 3 volume printed manual set, just a card or two signposting current, relevant resources. A simple app on the home screen would suffice too.

> Maybe when people spend large amounts of money on something, they should put more effort into learning how to use it?

Maybe the resources could be subtly telegraphed to the people when they spend large amounts of money on something. Like just about every other category of product in existence manages to a far fuller degree.

Re: iPhones are hard to use

#436

Post by saiya-jin » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 9:42 AM UTC

varenc wrote: post #110

Most of this article just lists semi-advanced features that people don't know about. I think that’s Apple’s intention... Having every feature and option up in your face can reduce usability and make simple tasks harder for the average user. Apple wants a product that's easy for anyone to use and that often means keeping non-essential features out of the way. I’d be more interesting in seeing feedback for Apple on how…

You can generally either dumb down the product that it has very few options to tweak (I call it a lazy engineer's choice), or you can design the product that it has the initial setting for average joe, then you can drill deeper into advanced settings if you need. Plenty of software does this right.

These type of complaints are the most common I hear from technical people that switch from android to iphone - the lack of customization, the product is on purpose 'dumbed down'.

Re: iPhones are hard to use

#437

Post by arsenico » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 9:45 AM UTC

isostatic wrote: post #415

coldtea wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Language? I'd quite like to be able to change that frequently. I see no good reason to have mono-culture enforced by the OS. That's an outlier request, if I ever saw one, and the accusation is absurd (they give localizations for the OS and tons of things like Siri for dozens or hundreds of languages, so to say they ..."enforce a mono-culture" because they don't allow one to see Spanish one day and French the next o…

Having a customisable control centre might be good. I often turn mobile data on and off (when I'm abroad), and it's a minor pain going into settings. On the other hand I hardly ever touch Bluetooth, and never use airdrop or airplay mirroring.

It is customisable, you know.

Re: iPhones are hard to use

#438

Post by vbezhenar » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 9:54 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #377

fit2rule wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language? I'd quite like to be able to change that frequently. I see no good reason to have mono-culture enforced by the OS. There are three languages spoken in my household, by various family members. Changing the language dynamically for them would be a benefit, not a hindrance. Text size? Same - I often have to show something to my elderly family members, but digging deep into the menu's to find the Text Size sett…

> Language? I'd quite like to be able to change that frequently. I see no good reason to have mono-culture enforced by the OS. That's an outlier request, if I ever saw one, and the accusation is absurd (they give localizations for the OS and tons of things like Siri for dozens or hundreds of languages, so to say they ..."enforce a mono-culture" because they don't allow one to see Spanish one day and French the next o…

I'd like to use different languages for different applications. I'm using Russian and English languages interchangeably on my phone. Luckily many applications nowadays have separate language setting, but not all. That's not an outlier request. I hate that English-dominating CS monoculture that thinks that everyone is like them. It caused great headache of 8-bit encodings which the rest of the world had to deal with for decades, while US didn't even understand what the problem was about, strlen is just fine!

Re: iPhones are hard to use

#439

Post by chrishannah » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 9:58 AM UTC

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #435

chrishannah wrote: post #430

I can see a few good points being made here. But I don't think if someone can't use a device properly, that it's the manufacturers fault for making it hard to use. Also, I think there are many points being made that are either down to people being told incorrect information, or them just being plain wrong. Regarding using Spotlight to search for apps/files: "Find a spot in Springboard (what’s that?) with no apps or f…

> I don't think if someone can't use a device properly, that it's the manufacturers fault for making it hard to use. It absolutely, completely is. What pointers to the hidden features, or more information, are built into the very trivial onboarding phones provide? What quick reference leaflets are in the box? What brightly printed card with a QR code to the downloadable beginners guide, or full manual is there? What…

> None at all.

There's a mini user guide in every iPhone box.

Also, Apple includes the Tips app by default on iPhones, that continuously prompts about features, and guides on how to use them.

Re: iPhones are hard to use

#440

Post by wtmt » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 10:03 AM UTC

As others have said, whatever the author has written could apply to any smartphone from any vendor and any OS. And there's a whole lot of room for improvement in iOS (only Apple has to decide that these are priorities). The small screens and touch interface pose many limitations on how to convey things to users and enhance discoverability. I doubt if anyone wants a phone that bothers them for an entire hour teaching them how to do certain things. It's already quite painful setting up a new iOS device and having to re-download all apps on a slow connection (with the removal of app transfer from device to iTunes about two years ago).

Some more observations:

1. The author mentions the manual on the Apple Books Store but doesn't even mention the Tips app that's been around a few years and shows some neat tips to discover some (not all) features. Apple ought to expand on this one more.

2. Some of the issues that the author lists are not easy to solve without having a long, tedious and difficult to use onboarding process when the device is first powered on. It also sounds like some of the examples he quotes are about people where someone else did the onboarding and forgot to setup certain things correctly when handing the device over to someone else. How can iOS or any OS solve these issues? The onboarding process, by some measures, is already long and incomprehensible by many lay people. For example, what exactly is "Location services" or "Notifications"? Taken to an extreme, some concepts (not these) are almost impossible for a device to explain to people. They're only a little bit more easier for people to explain to people. Computers are difficult for most people. Not everyone needs to know everything or every feature. But people learn over time because there are others who teach them things.

3. Also, telling people that they can ask the iPhone for directions and that Apple should make sure people know about it is a catch 22. In India, Apple Maps cannot even find well known locations in major cities or provide directions to many places. Siri doesn't understand the Indian English accents (yeah, there are different accents depending on where the user is from within the country) well. Apple would have to know how good some of its services are and decide to tell people or not tell people or completely disable them in certain places. In this example, should Apple not tell users in India about Apple Maps or about Siri? Should it wait until another major release when these services are better? What defines "good enough" or "better"? Maps is almost useless in India, but Siri is not completely useless. It has some utility.

4. While writing a rant is easy, I wish the author had also spent some time on providing some suggestions or solutions for at least some, if not all, of the issues.

5. Email this to people at senior executives at Apple. That's something the author could've done after writing this post.