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Mars likely to have enough oxygen to support life: study

phys.org

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Re: Mars likely to have enough oxygen to support life: study

#71

Post by thaumasiotes »

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #4

Things I know about Mars: >No oceans >No plants >No phytoplankton >Massive planetwide dust storms lasting several months >Average surface temperatures at or below freezing >Space suit required Things I know about Earth: >Drinking water falls from the sky >Food grows on trees >Breathable atmosphere >Clothing optional in most areas >I can feel actual sunlight on my face every day

To be fair, most of your Earth facts don't apply to the more inhospitable areas of Earth, where people live anyway. The Sahara and the Arctic both feature a breathable atmosphere. The Arctic is missing the other four items. The Sahara will let you feel sunlight on your face if you want, but it isn't really recommended.

"Breathable atmosphere" is a much bigger deal than everything else.

Re: Mars likely to have enough oxygen to support life: study

#72

Post by coldtea »

thecopy wrote: post #67
onion2k wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No established legal or social framework. Not true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty

And where are the weapons to enforce this? - "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun"

You think they'd let random "mavericks" go there without a police and guns and laws?

The whole reason of spending trillions to get people there would be to exploit and control the shit out of the place...

Re: Mars likely to have enough oxygen to support life: study

#73

Post by coldtea »

patricklouys wrote: post #48
ElBarto wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The upper atmosphere of Venus is actually the closest to Earth conditions we have in the solar system. Just float around in an airtight habitat. Gravity is the same as on Earth, pressure is the same, temperature is 25C. You literally only need to be airtight to keep the noxious atmosphere at bay.

But where do you get additional resources?

By closed-system agriculture and farming and so on.

Why, where would you get them on Mars?

Re: Mars likely to have enough oxygen to support life: study

#74

Post by coldtea »

ryanSrich wrote: post #15
verelo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, why fixate on turning one planet into “habitable” while we do the opposite to the one we are already on? I’d like to see us address those issues of society first before we spread our influence across the literal galaxy.

We have to start somewhere that isn’t earth. Interstellar travel over the next 100-1000 years will be a requirement for the next 5000-10000 years if humans expect to survive that long. Starting development now to understand terraforming and building out the primitives that allow for it in the future is something we owe to generations to come.

>Interstellar travel over the next 100-1000 years will be a requirement for the next 5000-10000 years if humans expect to survive that long.

Given the mechanics, interstellar travel will most likely always be a pipe dream, because techies still have to believe to some fairy tales...

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2007/06/the_high...

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/11/the_myth...

Re: Mars likely to have enough oxygen to support life: study

#75

Post by cbkeller »

Sniffnoy wrote: post #34

Mightn't this indicate that life on Mars is less , not more, likely than we thought? Respiration is complicated, so I would expect any life that might have existed on Mars to be anaerobic. If there's actually enough oxygen to support aerobic life, that doesn't bode well for any anaerobic life, does it?

Geologist here. I would tend to agree, considering that present-day oxidizing conditions on mars are generally thought to be due to photolysis and hydrogen loss, not life/photosynthesis, e.g.: https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/ast.2013.0999 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001910350...

Heck, Mars is so oxidized it has soils that are 0.5% perchorate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perchlorate#On_Mars and that stuff's so oxidizing it's not even common on Earth outside of fireworks and rocket propellants

Re: Mars likely to have enough oxygen to support life: study

#76

Post by coldtea »

brigade wrote: post #28
ryanSrich wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have to start somewhere that isn’t earth. Interstellar travel over the next 100-1000 years will be a requirement for the next 5000-10000 years if humans expect to survive that long. Starting development now to understand terraforming and building out the primitives that allow for it in the future is something we owe to generations to come.

If you're arguing species-level survival, really we're going to survive longer than that, short of a meteor strike or maybe nuclear war. Sure, 99% of the population might die, the equator could become uninhabitable, and we might lose advanced tech in the ensuing wars, but it'll take much more than climate change to completely wipe out homo sapiens. We do need to be colonizing other stars within a quarter billion year…

>Sure, 99% of the population might die, the equator could become uninhabitable, and we might lose advanced tech in the ensuing wars, but it'll take much more than climate change to completely wipe out homo sapiens.

Why? Tons of other species have been wiped out very easily, and they didn't even contribute to their own demise as much as we did.

Re: Mars likely to have enough oxygen to support life: study

#77

Post by fyfy18 »

TomMarius wrote: post #53
njarboe wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things I know about Mars: No established legal or social framework. Things I know about Earth: Probability of finding a place to be left alone with a small group of like minded people. 0 A certain type of person is interested in living a life where they have a large amount of control over the political and social systems they live with. The American frontier was an ideal place for such people to move to. Many took ad…

IMO there is plenty of space left on Earth - oceans, deserts... Not saying that we should colonize all Earth, but IMO it'll happen way before any significant Mars population due to costs.

Its also worth mentioning there are plenty of places on Earth with pretty hospitable environments, it's not just deserts and the article circle. Yes cities are overcrowded, but that's just because people go there for jobs.

My wife's grandmother lives in a remote part of Eastern Europe, the nearest small town with a supermarket is half an hour drive away and the nearest neighbour is a few km away. She (aged 78) grows most of their food, and milks cows for a living. In the winter it can get down to -20c, but with modern insulation that's nothing to worry about. The fire/boiler is fueled by wood they chop down on their property. There are plenty of similar places in even more favourable climates like Spain or the US.

Re: Mars likely to have enough oxygen to support life: study

#78

Post by jononor »

njarboe wrote: post #44
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #4

Things I know about Mars: >No oceans >No plants >No phytoplankton >Massive planetwide dust storms lasting several months >Average surface temperatures at or below freezing >Space suit required Things I know about Earth: >Drinking water falls from the sky >Food grows on trees >Breathable atmosphere >Clothing optional in most areas >I can feel actual sunlight on my face every day

Things I know about Mars: No established legal or social framework. Things I know about Earth: Probability of finding a place to be left alone with a small group of like minded people. 0 A certain type of person is interested in living a life where they have a large amount of control over the political and social systems they live with. The American frontier was an ideal place for such people to move to. Many took ad…

Plenty of international sea available.

Re: Mars likely to have enough oxygen to support life: study

#79

Post by otabdeveloper1 »

njarboe wrote: post #44
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #4

Things I know about Mars: >No oceans >No plants >No phytoplankton >Massive planetwide dust storms lasting several months >Average surface temperatures at or below freezing >Space suit required Things I know about Earth: >Drinking water falls from the sky >Food grows on trees >Breathable atmosphere >Clothing optional in most areas >I can feel actual sunlight on my face every day

Things I know about Mars: No established legal or social framework. Things I know about Earth: Probability of finding a place to be left alone with a small group of like minded people. 0 A certain type of person is interested in living a life where they have a large amount of control over the political and social systems they live with. The American frontier was an ideal place for such people to move to. Many took ad…

Good luck trying to be 'left alone' when you're literally at the mercy of an Earth government for the importation of the very air you breathe.

Re: Mars likely to have enough oxygen to support life: study

#80

Post by hacker_9 »

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #4

Things I know about Mars: >No oceans >No plants >No phytoplankton >Massive planetwide dust storms lasting several months >Average surface temperatures at or below freezing >Space suit required Things I know about Earth: >Drinking water falls from the sky >Food grows on trees >Breathable atmosphere >Clothing optional in most areas >I can feel actual sunlight on my face every day

Agree. This whole race to mars is interesting to watch from afar, but it's ultimately just a big rock with 110% less going on that we gratefully have here.
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