Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could you please identify the PR for me? I'm genuinely intrigued: all I see is an observation that different kind of bank has an audience outside of its intended audience, an explanation of how it operates differently, and criticism that it is not as different as it makes itself out to be.
By PR he means advertising. This article functions as advertising for Sharia banks.
Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance
151–160 of 163 posts
Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
By PR he means advertising. This article functions as advertising for Sharia banks.
I don't get it. "Sharia bank" is not a partnership, chain or franchise, it's a concept like "British law".
Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
The boom and bust cycle has been driven primarily by land speculation since classical antiquity. The ability of banks to use their credit creation powers to fuel real estate bubbles through mortgage lending can be halted using a frequently reassessed land value tax and land value increment tax. In the early 1900s Germany completely eliminated land speculation in the colony of Kiautschou using a 6% annual tax on asses…
What's stopping people from doing that?
Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance
#154I had the opportunity to translate technical documents for both conventional and sharia financial products a few years ago, and I find the market fascination of them mind-boggling. These products seemed to incorporate convoluted jargon and concepts which dramatically increased complexity but at the same time, produced no extra utility for end-users. On top of that, the addition of ongoing shariah-compliance introduce…
I agree that your experience is exactly what sounds like: taking a conventional financial instrument, replacing all mention of the word “interest” with something way more complicated, and adding rules that seem difficult to always stay on the right side of. That happens to be exactly what Tarek El Diwany (mentioned in the second last paragraph of article) is saying. Shariah banks have to operate in a world that has c…
We have a term for this, it is called “equity financing.” The alternative is called “debt financing.” Islamic orthodoxy effectively banishes debt financing (unless done at zero interest), while offering equity financing as the solution. But it is not a solution at all.
Suppose that I need to purchase a vehicle, in order to drive to work every day (let’s say I live in a country where public transportation is non-existent, e.g. Saudi Arabia). Without a vehicle, I cannot earn a living. However, to purchase a car I need a large amount of cash, which most people don’t have. The normal solution is debt, i.e. borrow money to finance the purchase of a vehicle, and pay back the lender over time with interest. Everyone wins.
But ... Islam forbids such a transaction. Under true Sharia law, I need to either find a lender who is willing to offer me a zero interest loan so I can buy a car, or I need to find someone who is willing to enter into a “profit/loss sharing” arrangement (whatever that means).
Now nobody is willing to lend money for free (especially not oil rich Islamists who oppose non-Sharia Finance). There are a couple reasons why nobody lends money for free (time value of money, credit risk), but it should be quite obvious that no one will lend me money at zero interest to buy a car.
What about “profit/loss sharing?” Well, I do use the car to earn money (by driving to work). It would be wonderful if we could all pay x% of my monthly salary as a car payment. That means if I earn less, I pay less for my car. If I lose my job, I don’t have to pay anything. If I earn more, I pay more for car payments (for the same car). This has some very obvious problems. It might be good for some consumers who have a modest income, but wealthy consumers would not like this. Moreover, no lender would ever be willing to enter into such an arrangement. It’s completely unworkable. You can say the same for other personal loans, like mortgages and student loans.
So what actually happens in “Sharia Compliant Banking” is that Islamic banks lend money at a fixed rate of interest (just like conventional banks) but they disguise the interest using combinations of legal instruments. Christians in medieval Europe did something very similar (see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contractum_trinius). One consequence of this legal gymnastics is that Islamic bank consumers have fewer legal protections. For example, an “Islamic mortgage” requires you to hand over title of your house to the Islamic bank. This is different and less advantageous to a conventional mortgage where you retain the title to your property.
Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
The beef has to be halal beef. In this context of using beef fat as an additive to other food, the beef fat has to be halal as well.
right, but the the gp said halal establishments always used vegetable oil instead of beef fat.
Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not a reason to be a fan. It's much unhealthier. Unless they are changing out the vegetable oil every day then it carries a much bigger cancer risk (due to aldehydes).
It is a reason to be fan if you are concerned about animal rights and the environmental impact of animal husbandry. But, yes, in terms of personal health vegetable oil might not be better in any way. I know very little about that, and I have no reason to doubt your claim.
Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is a reason to be fan if you are concerned about animal rights and the environmental impact of animal husbandry. But, yes, in terms of personal health vegetable oil might not be better in any way. I know very little about that, and I have no reason to doubt your claim.
Are patties vegetarian? It's not like we're killing cattle specifically to render tallow.
You're probably right that cows are not killed mainly for their tallow. Yet, let me try to illustrate why this can be off putting anyway (not trying to flame troll, but just to politely answer your comment): If your cat (or dog, or horse, etc) died in a traffic accident, would you cook a meal from it, even if it was not killed for that purpose? Some people respect the rights of all animals to the degree that they refuse to consider them as food; just like we do with our animal pets and other humans (even the humans we don't like, if any).
Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hopefully, like high protein yogurt and paleo brownies, this will catch on and the larger institutions will offer options to their retail customers.
But it doesn't really make sense unless its organisation-wide
If I take all my money to an ethical (for whatever definition of ethical) institution, or I nominate an ethical profile with my current institution, the same amount of money is doing the same thing, no?
Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> the boom-and-bust economic cycles have grown more catastrophic While agreeing with your post more generally, this one statement seems a bit off the mark. Shouldn't the Great Recession should fairly be compared with Great Depression? So far, at least, the Great Depression was far more catastrophic, as was for that matter the Long Depression starting in 1873. All three of these were real financial sector collapses,…
That's a fair point. I was including the smaller recessions as well: there is a boom and a bust within a ten year span. That the IMF changed the definition of a global recession is a little weird, but they know better than I do. From wikipedia: According to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), "Global recessions seem to occur over a cycle lasting between eight and 10 years."[48] The IMF takes many factors into acco…
Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems if you save money at the bank they will actually loose money for you since their interest rate is lower than inflation. The financial market is such a clusterfuck lmao
I'm not going to claim that finance isn't a clusterfuck - but paying people to store things securely isn't exactly strange. If anything the amazing thing was that people would pay us to look after our money in the first place!
If other people take their money out first you'll end up with zero, if you're lucky though a government bailout will come along and the loss is outsourced onto future taxpayers.
The bank doesn't have your actual money on hold in case you want it.