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Fake news ‘as a service’ booming among cybercrooks

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Fake news ‘as a service’ booming among cybercrooks

#61
post #58
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really not sure what kind of people are downvoting these kinds of comments. Anyone care to enlighten?

Usually the kind of people who esteem journalists as philosopher-kings, and the organizations who employ them as paragons of perfect, unassailable virtue. The Fourth Estate is not to be criticized.

What kind of conspiracy nonsense is this?

Re: Fake news ‘as a service’ booming among cybercrooks

#62
post #6

I gave a talk at Denver startup week last year about the underlying profit incentives tied to fake news and how industry reforms in the way media companies do business could not only benefit the advertisers but also stop Fake news. At the end of the talk I had 3 people ask how they could make fake news to promote their startups. That this has turned into a booming industry surprises me 0%, though it is depressing.

My thought experiment for considering the moral limits of capitalism: If producing Soylent Green were legal and profitable, would there be actors willing to produce and sell it? If you answer no, see: Philip Morris, Lockheed, Beretta, etc.

I agree with you, people can do all kinds of terrible things especially for the sake of profit. I believe comparing defense contractors and firearms manufacturers with eating people could be considered disingenuous, however.

Re: Fake news ‘as a service’ booming among cybercrooks

#63

I've been working on some algorithms I think can identify fake news easily and reliably. The key part is you have to have a massive dataset of historical information. With Datastreamer (my company) we have about 1PB of news, blogs, and social media from the last 4-5 years. I'm curious if it would make sense to ship an open/public API that would allow people both to report AND check on whether something is fake news.…

Hi I am interested in this sort of service. I have 2 concerns. First is I don't install browser extensions unless I really trust them. Too many are pumped up and then sold to some malware company, one update later and you're owned. My second concern is that if this works well eventually the fake news producers will become aware of it, reverse engineer it and then attempt to game the detection.

Fakespot has been popular for years, and spam reviewers haven't been able to game it.

Re: Fake news ‘as a service’ booming among cybercrooks

#64
post #6

I gave a talk at Denver startup week last year about the underlying profit incentives tied to fake news and how industry reforms in the way media companies do business could not only benefit the advertisers but also stop Fake news. At the end of the talk I had 3 people ask how they could make fake news to promote their startups. That this has turned into a booming industry surprises me 0%, though it is depressing.

Is this something that requires government oversight or is it just a business plan/strategy. If the latter then the free market should tell you that your plan is right or wrong. If it requires government overshight I would say its inherently flawed. "Fake news" isnt a problem the problem is a lazy populace that take any word for granted as long as the production value is good enough.

Fake news is how free speech is supposed to work. People get to say what they want and the populace decides for themselves what is right or wrong. Liable and slander are still in effect.

Re: Fake news ‘as a service’ booming among cybercrooks

#65

I've been working on some algorithms I think can identify fake news easily and reliably. The key part is you have to have a massive dataset of historical information. With Datastreamer (my company) we have about 1PB of news, blogs, and social media from the last 4-5 years. I'm curious if it would make sense to ship an open/public API that would allow people both to report AND check on whether something is fake news.…

What could possibly go wrong?

False flagging, FUD based on groupthink and cognitive biases, accidental suppression of newly created websites in favor of older ones. Just to start off a list.

Not everything is solvable through algorithms. Especially if your initial goad is ill-defined. There are about half a dozen completely separate things that are being labeled as "fake news" today, from websites impersonating news agencies and pushing lies, to actual news agencies pushing lies, to viral hoaxes on social media.

Ultimately, whether a news article is fake or not is determined by its relation to reality. You could use context as heuristic to filter out complete garbage, but this is something that's actually being abused by many subcategories of "fake news" to begin with.

People should be able to use their own judgement to spot nonsense, without algorithms telling them what to think. If they can't, the first questions should be "why?" and "why now?", not "how do I make an app to fix it?".

Personally, I think the underlying assumption behind current social media are profoundly broken and can't be fixed just by sprinkling more tech on top of it all. Obvious example: if you release a news-checking app and someone else releases a fake news-checking app, how do you expect your users to choose the right one?

Re: Fake news ‘as a service’ booming among cybercrooks

#67
post #6

I gave a talk at Denver startup week last year about the underlying profit incentives tied to fake news and how industry reforms in the way media companies do business could not only benefit the advertisers but also stop Fake news. At the end of the talk I had 3 people ask how they could make fake news to promote their startups. That this has turned into a booming industry surprises me 0%, though it is depressing.

I went to a local tech event. A few folks gave talks about their products / services and their marketing. A few included people straight up talking about paying "influencers" or pod casters, or youtubers, to mention their product or service and so forth. Nobody seemed to note anything about disclosing that it was an advertisement or not.

I liked to think that maybe they just assumed the influencer was going to mention it was paid or everyone understood that was the case but me .... but it never was actually spoken about.

I couldn't help but wonder if the people paying for these services think that they are ever exposed to other companies doing the same? Do they care?

Re: Fake news ‘as a service’ booming among cybercrooks

#68

The fake news phenomenon is something that worries me at a local level: friends and family. I'm constantly bombarded by forwarded messages from them that don't pass a simple cursory review and are 99% fake if you dig further. I've tried to combat this by researching what's forwarded to me and pointing that out (including how I discovered it was false) but people either don't reply back or get hostile, assuming I'm on…

I feel most people who trust social media for news are super-late Internet adopters who don't quite understand how any of this stuff works. I know some older (but not old, really) people who use Facebook without understanding the boundary between Facebook and the rest of the web. They just see text on the screen and make arbitrary assumptions on where it's coming from.

This is the price society is paying for making social media "accessible" through phone apps and such.

Re: Fake news ‘as a service’ booming among cybercrooks

#69
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thought experiment for considering the moral limits of capitalism: If producing Soylent Green were legal and profitable, would there be actors willing to produce and sell it? If you answer no, see: Philip Morris, Lockheed, Beretta, etc.

Coca-Cola will likely kill more people than guns and organized crime, honestly. But I see your point. There is a lot of evidence that organized crime is a substitute for opportunities in legitimate society, so that example is perhaps not applicable. The opioid crisis caused by US pharma may be a bigger and better example.

Organized crime is a huge problem. Like just take Mexico. Really poor and that's because of organized crime. If they were richer they could probably save a lot of lives. I think that's a bigger factor than the number of people shot dead.

Re: Fake news ‘as a service’ booming among cybercrooks

#70

The fake news phenomenon is something that worries me at a local level: friends and family. I'm constantly bombarded by forwarded messages from them that don't pass a simple cursory review and are 99% fake if you dig further. I've tried to combat this by researching what's forwarded to me and pointing that out (including how I discovered it was false) but people either don't reply back or get hostile, assuming I'm on…

A lot of people with that mindset really don't care where it comes from. Like you said, they're in part trying to fuel some hatred towards a particular person or group of people. It simply exists to propogate ideas in those who are unwilling to listen to any sort of reason, who will then spread and share these ideas with others. These people are perfectly fine living in a bubble and feeding off of each other all because they are unwilling to form their own opinions and face the facts, imagined or real.
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