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Linux 4.19

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Re: Linux 4.19

#121

Post by 0xfeeddeadbeef »

0xfeeddeadbeef wrote: post #72
vatueil wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding Linus, he spoke to the BBC and explained in his own words his position: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45664640 This ZDNet article summarizes some of the points Linus made, if you want the short version: https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-answers-5-quest...

Haha, I found a possible Freudian slip in the article: "Code of Conflict (CoC)". Yes, it says "Conflict", which is unintentionally true, as it indeed caused more conflict than not. [1] [1] Archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20181011105751/https://www.bbc.c...

OK, I was wrong. But still, it reads just like a pun in light of recent events.

Re: Linux 4.19

#122

Post by binaryapparatus »

ufo wrote: post #111
binaryapparatus wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is stable different from latest? I am not sure how much independent decision space he has, otherwise we would have d-bus in stable long time ago. Maybe I don't know the process well enough but I would be surprised that Greg can merge something that isn't approved in latest. Fingers crossed it is only 4.19, I am kind of seeing this as a bigger event but I may be wrong.

Parent poster was referring to the "LTS" kernels: https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html A good number of Linux distributions are based on an LTS release instead of a mainline release.

Yes, I am aware of that but are LTS kernels in any for different from the mainline kernel? Can LTS kernel contain code that is not approved and tested in mainline first? They are 'older' but they contain same feature set that is already approved by Linus, right?

Re: Linux 4.19

#123

Post by x220 »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #120
x220 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem arises when "belittlement" or harassment is defined by someone's feelings rather than any objective, specific standard.

Which is exactly why there's a board, requiring 2/3rds majority in a vote, after reviewing the evidence in question. A person cannot simply accuse people they don't like and get them excluded for breaching the CoC. It doesn't work that way. And harassment/belittelment is always a question of feelings. You can't set up a clear concise objective standard. It's a case by case thing.

> a board, requiring 2/3rds majority in a vote

So instead of merely depending on the feelings of the accuser, it depends on the feelings of two thirds of the board? That's not much better. You can make objective rules that are not subject to feelings, you just have to be willing to not please everyone. When you don't have objective rules, people are less likely to participate in the game because people can't be sure that they aren't breaking a rule.

Re: Linux 4.19

#124

Post by apple4ever »

mbrumlow wrote: post #113
icebraining wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should accept the politics if you agree with them. Linux should change its politics if its major contributors agree they should be changed, and at least seven of them - including Linus himself - do. I'm not sure why this is controversial - the people who can implement the CoC are the same people who generally decide where the project goes, same as always (just ask the people behind GRSecurity). I'm not sure why s…

I think the problem has to do with how this potcular CoC came about to be the de facto CoC. There is a lot of evidence in screenshots and wayback machine that suggest that this CoC was strongarmed into a lot of projects, and the ones that resisted have been put into a bad light. Not to mention the author of the CoC started this process while working at Github by making it easy to add a CoC and badgering projects that…

I believe most of the community would be totally fine with a CoC that banned things commonly agreed as bad (sexual harassment, trolling, etc) with no ulterior motive.

As you said, that's not what happened here. As the writer of the "Contributors Covenant" has made clear, there is an ulterior motive. She has a political agenda.

I think if Linus chose any other CoC, there would be no uproar.

Re: Linux 4.19

#125

Post by apple4ever »

specialist wrote: post #89
m1el wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The CoC being a political document is expected I agree that both CoC and GPL are political. Developers need to understand something: CoC a political document written by someone opposing one of important principles of free software, meritocracy. https://postmeritocracy.org/ Now here's a big difference: linux was developed under GPL from the very beginning. If you didn't like the politics behind GPL, you didn't contr…

I'm a huge fan of CoC's. It allows us to codify the spirit of the law, to be used as a fall-back plan when the letter of the law is being gamed. CoC's allow judgement, in contrast to zero tolerance policies which prohibit judgement. One of orgs I volunteer for had our own #metoo drama. Actual rape, assaults, harassment, etc. Some stomach turning stuff. It made the news. There have been some out of court settlements.…

I think many people would be fans of CoCs.

The problem is THIS CoC has an explicit agenda, which can lead to it being "weaponized, misused, abused".

If the community all came together and chose a non-biased CoC, there would be no uproar.

Re: Linux 4.19

#126

Post by Fnoord »

stevewillows wrote: post #32

Although it doesn't specifically mention it, this kernel supports Apple's Magic Trackpad 2, which is a real blessing. Original source: https://github.com/robotrovsky/Linux-Magic-Trackpad-2-Driver I've been using this since last night, and with some tweaking, it works really well.

With haptic feedback support? That's amazing, I just bought one of these (as it is the best trackpad available by a long shot). Even Windows doesn't support this. I did find this one [1], but it doesn't seem to be signed so a shady source.

[1] http://extramagic.forbootcamp.org/

Re: Linux 4.19

#127

Post by Corrado »

shmerl wrote: post #117

Some important fixes in amdgpu for Vega there. It's finally waking up from sleep properly when using DisplayPort.

This was my biggest issue with 4.17 & 4.18. I just recently upgraded my system to a Ryzen 2400 and I have had quite a few issues. Keeping up with the latest kernel builds with ukuu has helped but it would be nice to have a stable kernel that works with my CPU/GPU. Hopefully, 4.19 will make it to stable tonight and I can upgrade tomorrow. :)

Re: Linux 4.19

#128

Post by Fnoord »

jedberg wrote: post #73
tylerjwilk00 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got down voted last time I mentioned this like it is some sort of conspiracy and not historical fact, but Microsoft literally used the phrase "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" [1] as a strategy to defeat competition. So anytime you hear of them embracing something you would do well to be skeptical of their motives. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...

Sure, but that was two CEOs ago, and they were the dominant market player in all categories at the time. They're a different company now.

EEE [1] still happened under Ballmer's reign. Ballmer was CEO from 2000 till 2014, a confident of Gates (being employee #30 and the first business manager being hired by Gates) [2].

The Halloween documents [3] also contain FUD [4] disinformation from 2002-2004: Shared Source Initiative, Microsoft's 'investment' in The SCO Group, and the 'Get The Facts' campaign. That SCO lawsuit shenanigans lasted till when, 2008?

I have no issue when people argue Microsoft has changed since Ballmer left and Nadella took charge but like Gates, Ballmer was no angel either.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Ballmer#History_with_Mic...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt

Re: Linux 4.19

#129

Post by TheJEB-AK »

jf- wrote: post #76
geofft wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Communications involving the project directly" is a good goal, but is ambiguous when e.g. one developer is belittling another in a semi-related forum like their personal Twitter account where they regularly have technical conversations, their HN account, etc. If (hypothetically) Linus were to be nice and polite on LKML, and reply to tweets about bugs saying "Yes, that's a bug, the developer should be retroactively a…

Your example isn’t that ambiguous, that’s a public communication directly about the project. That should be covered by the CoC. However unrelated statements, even very politically incorrect ones, should be outside it’s remit. If for example someone was a virulent racist on twitter. That’s arguably a bad thing, but those statements are unrelated to the project and should have no bearing on contributions to it. (Now th…

No downvotes from this guy here. I work with some terrible engineers who I wouldn't trust to design a tire pressure gauge but they're pleasant to be around. On the other hand, I've worked with world class engineers who are abrasive as hell but still write/design good gear. Code shouldn't have a thing to do with their political leanings. To quote an old OpenBSD saying: "shut up and hack".

Re: Linux 4.19

#130

Post by stevewillows »

Fnoord wrote: post #126
stevewillows wrote: post #32

Although it doesn't specifically mention it, this kernel supports Apple's Magic Trackpad 2, which is a real blessing. Original source: https://github.com/robotrovsky/Linux-Magic-Trackpad-2-Driver I've been using this since last night, and with some tweaking, it works really well.

With haptic feedback support? That's amazing, I just bought one of these (as it is the best trackpad available by a long shot). Even Windows doesn't support this. I did find this one [1], but it doesn't seem to be signed so a shady source. [1] http://extramagic.forbootcamp.org/

Not sure about haptic feedback yet.

For Windows, try https://github.com/imbushuo/mac-precision-touchpad/releases

I went through a lot of sketchy drivers like that one you mentioned, but this one worked the best without any helper apps to mess around with.

Its a shame its taken so long for other OSs to support such a great device.

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