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Ask HN: First month job anxiety. Am I actually an impostor?

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Re: Ask HN: First month job anxiety. Am I actually an impostor?

#91

Sounds like you've been set adrift in a canoe without a paddle and you're trying to keep up with the other canoeists. You need to ask your colleagues to pair with them, and your management to encourage the practice. The amount of institutional knowledge you need in order to thrive should be more fire hose than eyedropper. The reason people fight with their tools? The tools suck in terms of instructions and the only w…

> The amount of institutional knowledge you need in order to thrive should be more fire hose than eyedropper.

I don't think this is what you meant, but I disagree as written. You shouldn't need a fire hose or institutional knowledge to thrive. Of course in practice, this is rarely true, but in general I think aiming to require minimal institutional knowledge is a good goal.

Re: Ask HN: First month job anxiety. Am I actually an impostor?

#92
I joined Google few months back, and I feel the same way. I even discussed this with my manager. Heck, I even cried at office one day. But things are slowly getting better. The feeling has defiantly reduced over time or I have stopped giving a fuck a lot of times. Either way, it has reduced but is still present. I felt the same way at my previous employer for the first 6 months I guess, but then I felt like God :P I could get shit done fast and with a better design than my peers. So I am hoping it turns the same way at Google for me, and you. :)

Re: Ask HN: First month job anxiety. Am I actually an impostor?

#93
post #79

I've noticed a pattern: the people that look "on point" are often clueless, and the ones that look muddled are often heading in the right direction. It has taken twenty years, and several careers, for me to work this out though. Try to find someone you can talk to, and work with, that doesn't make you feel stupid. You seem to be focusing too much on the "I": it makes a huge difference the relationships you form. Huge…

>I've noticed a pattern: the people that look "on point" are often clueless, and the ones that look muddled are often heading in the right direction. It's because it has nothing to do with intelligence, and everything to do with presentation. This is why some people work in sales, and some people work in engineering. If someone that has no clue keeps insisting they do understand, at some point you'll start doubting y…

Thank you for this comment. Some golden observations there.

Re: Ask HN: First month job anxiety. Am I actually an impostor?

#94
post #79

I've noticed a pattern: the people that look "on point" are often clueless, and the ones that look muddled are often heading in the right direction. It has taken twenty years, and several careers, for me to work this out though. Try to find someone you can talk to, and work with, that doesn't make you feel stupid. You seem to be focusing too much on the "I": it makes a huge difference the relationships you form. Huge…

>I've noticed a pattern: the people that look "on point" are often clueless, and the ones that look muddled are often heading in the right direction. It's because it has nothing to do with intelligence, and everything to do with presentation. This is why some people work in sales, and some people work in engineering. If someone that has no clue keeps insisting they do understand, at some point you'll start doubting y…

Thank you for putting this in words, I had thought about how people react to questions and how some would just dismiss them while others will explore and try to know more about your thought process but never could put it in words.

the first paragraph in your post reminds me of the Dunning-Kruger effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Re: Ask HN: First month job anxiety. Am I actually an impostor?

#95
I can identify a lot with what you said; one of my biggest weaknesses is being afraid to ask questions, fearing it might signal my lack of trying to figure things out on my own, and I can't seem to know when I'm actually wasting too much time not asking.

Personally, if I were to join a new team in the future, I'd first ask what the preferred toolset to debug is, along with any shortcuts (bash commands, way of setting up terminals, any admin UIs) they use, because it can greatly tighten your feedback loop when you test code you write, or poke around, etc. Maybe even pair with one of them while they solve a not so trivial bug, asking them to voice out what questions they're asking in the their head, how they know which file to look for or what to global search for, and articulate how they traverse through their tree of knowledge.

I've seen interns that were energetic, enthusiastic, and really felt no shame or stupidity in asking questions, even more trivial ones, because they looked like they were genuinely curious. They soaked up knowledge like a sponge and it was evident that they had nothing to lose after months of relentless question-asking - and very fortunately my team's culture tolerated that. Your team should encourage and support curiosity, speaking the language of logic, reason, and hopefully even helping others somewhat selflessly.

Re: Ask HN: First month job anxiety. Am I actually an impostor?

#96
You a have a huge attitude problem.

> I am trying to get new ideas done. But after one day of programming for my job, I am exhausted and I cannot extract any brain-juice any more. And if I try to work during the week-ends, I can't rewind enough for the next week. And my progress are damn slow. It seems I would need a year to achieve what a good programmer could do in a week.

Do you have professional training? A degree? How long have you been programming? I know the current fad is to brush off the stodgy past and just start hacking, but it's honestly complete horse-shit.

You need some kind of training to be a great engineer, even if it is self training through reading books and documentation. Or do you think you will simply invent or absorb the past 40 years of software development and research through osmosis?

Tooling around and poking at things until they work is a great way to start programming but it eventually becomes exhausting.

Experience is an amazing resource, but in my opinion is over-rated. Directed practice and active learning is what leads to becoming a better programmer. If you are finding you aren't progressing, ask yourself: What are you doing to fix that? https://daedtech.com/how-developers-stop-learning-rise-of-th...

> Let alone be a Mark Zuckerberg

This is such a toxic attitude.

Did you go to an elite private university? Did you go to an elite, extremely expensive boarding high school? Did you have a merlin-style private tutor that taught you computer programming at a young age? How many hundreds of thousands of dollars did your parents invest into your education?

No? Then why are you comparing yourself to Mark Zuckerberg? He comes from a different planet then you.

I know we like to idolize our captains of industry and Zuckerberg is undoubtedly brilliant and driven, but he had everything in the world pulling for him. If he had NOT succeeded in the way he has, it would have been pathetic.

Don't compare yourself to these people. They aren't like you. They have powerful families and friends that get their foot in the door for great connections.

They can take insane risks like dropping out of elite universities. Why? Because guess what: Mommy and daddy are there to pay for it when they decide to go back.

> The other big issue is that I don’t really know how to reach out to people. I’m not a collaborator; I’m a recluse. In my life, I’ve always done things from scratch. Now I have to make meetings, ask people for information, decide that something needs to be done and tell another team to do it, etc. To get good at this, it feels like I basically have to rewire my entire personality, and I don’t know how to go about doing this. I’ve also found myself not asking clarifying questions when something doesn’t make sense in a meeting—see “muddled thoughts” above—and then I’m stuck figuring out whatever it was that I misunderstood on my own time (or not at all).

You sound like you have anxiety problems. What have you done to address your anti-social tendencies? Are you going to a therapist? Do you expect a fairy to fly into your house and magic them away? What job do you think exists where you don't need these skills?

I know this is harsh to say, but: There is no finish line where you get a medal and a "You don't have to act like a normal person at work anymore" card. These problems are not going away and being fatalistic about them and deciding it's too much of a bother to work on them and address them is never going to fix anything.

Also, you think being an entrepreneur will allow you to talk to FEWER people and prevent you from having to reach out to people?

Sincere question: Why do you want to be an entrepreneur? What are your goals?

Wanting to be an entrepreneur in order to chase after the coat-tails of Mark Zuckerberg and other elite business owners is not a goal.

Wanting to be an entrepreneur because you have anxiety issues and want to run away from your problems instead of addressing them is not a goal.

And if you think you will make more money, you are PROBABLY wrong. 100k/year with no personal risk is a margin a LOT of small businesses would LOVE to have.

> What do I do? How do I get better?

GO TO A THERAPIST. Have them help you set goals. Listen to them and follow through with their advice.

Having a therapist does not mean you are crazy, and you don't NEED to be crazy to have one. It means you have having a neutral person who helps you track and set goals, track your moods, and help you process work relationships and events. Michael Jordan has a coach, brain workers have therapists.

Also: Learn to read. Look at these titans of industry and people at the top of their field, and then look at their reading list. Invariably it will be intensely long and full of boring books.

Read some books on productivity and emotional intelligence and software engineering and managing your life in general. Find people you admire and read their book recommendations.

My recommendations to start out:

- Deep Work - Cal Newport

- Measure What Matters - John Doerr

- The Pragmatic Programmer - Dave Thomas + Andrew Hunt

- Actual books about the programming environment you are working in.

Re: Ask HN: First month job anxiety. Am I actually an impostor?

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for putting into words what I experienced with my past job. In just every single previous job, I was either the lone coder (small companies or startups) or mostly expected to figure things out on my own and didn't have to discuss architectural decisions or issues I was having too often. But in my most recent job, I suddenly had to start explaining things in detailed and technical terms multiple times a day…

I'm curious: Did those verbally talented people also produce complex working code? My experience is that people who sound impressive and accurate rarely do.

I know the types of people you're talking about, and they do exist, for sure. But no, these people knew more than I did, at least in enterprise software (I came from mobile and video games, the apps mostly were all on the device making periodic api calls, I didn't have to worry too much about scaling to tens of thousands of concurrent users, or know anything about load balancing, or different environments, or query optimization, or all sorts of other fun stuff).

I learned a lot from them over the years, from Code Reviews I've received as well as Dev Learning Sessions we used to do every week, where one developer would share their knowledge on a topic with the rest of the group (sometimes they had to research it, we burned through a lot of relevant to our business topics after about 8 months) in a 30 minute session.

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