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Time to End Factory Farming?

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Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#61

Post by adetrest »

drenvuk wrote: post #31

The author has two articles, one is this one and the other makes a case for veganism. I understand that killing animals for their meat strikes some people as morally wrong but you're not going to change my mind by making me feel bad about how a cow, pig or chicken is raised and killed. This is not a moral problem for most people. We don't really care enough. We eat them because they taste good, are easily available a…

I feel that you don't want to change your mind anyway, and are happy to show us how smart you are by purposefully doing the opposite of what people hope to get you do after reading the article.

To me, your comment reads as someone saying that reading an article about lung cancer didn't deter them from smoking and actually reminded them to go and buy a pack of smokes. Or how an article about global warming reminded them they had to buy a gas guzzler today. Or reading an article about how cars should share the road with bicycles and saying it reminds you you didn't drive today and you're off to doing punishing passes and coal rolling cyclists.

Good for you, people can't tell you what to do and you know exactly what buttons to push to show how smart you are.

You might not agree with the article, but your reaction is ridiculous.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#62

Post by grecy »

throwaway8879 wrote: post #41
grecy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that it's illegal to film factory meat farms in some States in the USA should tell you a lot about just what is going on - and how horrible it must be. Sure, you want to eat steak, I get that. Go eat a steak. But lets at the very least treat the animals with respect and give them some semblance of a decent life and kill them quickly and humanely.

You want to treat something with respect and then kill it to eat it? What exactly is the point?

As a thought experiment, let us imagine you have been sentenced to death (that still happens in the USA, right?)

5 years from now, you will be killed.

Would you rather spend those 5 years jammed into a concrete cell with thousands of other inmates, unable to move, standing in your own feces, never to see the sun and only eating corn?

Or would you rather have a bed, running water, proper meals, be allowed outside in the sunshine for some hours a day and even get some exercise?

I think it's pretty clear which one you prefer, and we should treat non-human animals the same way. They're alive, lets treat them with some respect. (That applies to death row inmates, regular citizens and animals equally)

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#63

Post by m000 »

elbasti wrote: post #24

About three months ago I decided to stop purchasing factory-farmed meat. It's been pretty difficult for a few reasons. The biggest reason, by far, is access to information. Roughly, I would like to purchase only meat from animals that lived a "happy" life and had a relatively short death. Animals that lived outdoors, basically. But there are no credible labels or certifications for this, which means buying meat at th…

Labeling/certifying packaged and processed meats based on the animal living conditions is already happening in the Netherlands. There is a one to three star rating called Beter Leven Keurmerk (Better Living Quality Mark). This is stamped on the packaging of most animal products sold in grocery stores. The meaning of the stars for each kind of animal is explained on their website: https://beterleven.dierenbescherming.nl/

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#64

Post by deialtrous »

latch wrote: post #2

How can you be against cruelty to animals and still regularly consume meat? This question I ask sincerely. There are other equally ethical considerations: global warming, land use, energy/water use, etc. I feel that any one of these should give most people pause.

>How can you be against cruelty to animals and still regularly consume meat?

Because those are two separate questions. I eat meat from animals I raised and killed. I know there was no cruelty involved. I do not eat meat from stores or restaurants since they will almost certainly have involved cruelty.

>There are other equally ethical considerations: global warming, land use, energy/water use, etc. I feel that any one of these should give most people pause.

None of those considerations actually are arguments in favor of veganism. They are red herrings vegans use to try to get support from people who care about the environment. All of the environmental arguments put forth for veganism are deliberately misleading and dishonest.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#65

Post by toothbrush »

orblivion wrote: post #58
drenvuk wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only have possibly skewed anecdata for this claim but of the people who I know have seen factory farming investigation videos only two are vegetarians and the rest of them (20+ easily over time) have used it as a joke topic while eating meat laden meals together. This is from college 10 years ago until now. I think sharing these articles helps, maybe it will spur someone into making some new animal-cruelty-free foo…

Can you help me interpret these jokes between you and your friends? "Boy this steak sure tastes good because that cow was suffering" This sort of callousness is a common theme. Is this the form the jokes were taking? I'd understand if it were making fun of the animal for getting killed so long as it was humane, and people who worry too much about them. I'd understand the idea of "yeah I know it's bad, what am I going…

I guess i don't have a hard time believing the parent. I can imagine some college-aged youngsters projecting machismo/signalling to their social group and not yet having the maturity to reflect on their actions, indeed especially in the context of changing social norms and how they'd be perceived 50 years down the line. In university i had numerous flatmates or friends-of-flatmates who, upon discovering i'm a vegetarian, would appear to take delight in smugly telling me about how they would eat an extra steak on my behalf, or perhaps explaining some graphic detail about animal cruelty. I learned to be unflappable and simply leave the conversation at that point so as not to reward them with an emotional reaction, but all i'm trying to say is, i can totally imagine what the parent poster talks about. Thankfully though, these days i am blessed to have friends and colleagues who are both more self-aware and creative in the ways they crack jokes :).

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#66

Post by deialtrous »

flippyhead wrote: post #30
amachefe wrote: post #7

To end factory farming, start eating goats

But wouldn't this, eventually, just lead to the factory farming of goats?

Yes. People think you can't do factory farming of goats because current goat breeds do not tolerate confinement and simply get sick and die. This used to be true of hog breeds as well, but people purpose bred for animals that can withstand confinement. That's one of the primary reasons modern pork has no flavor, we stopped breeding animals that taste good and just worried about breeding ones that survive the industrial process. The same would inevitably happen with goats.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#67

Post by [deleted] »

adetrest wrote: post #61
drenvuk wrote: post #31

The author has two articles, one is this one and the other makes a case for veganism. I understand that killing animals for their meat strikes some people as morally wrong but you're not going to change my mind by making me feel bad about how a cow, pig or chicken is raised and killed. This is not a moral problem for most people. We don't really care enough. We eat them because they taste good, are easily available a…

I feel that you don't want to change your mind anyway, and are happy to show us how smart you are by purposefully doing the opposite of what people hope to get you do after reading the article. To me, your comment reads as someone saying that reading an article about lung cancer didn't deter them from smoking and actually reminded them to go and buy a pack of smokes. Or how an article about global warming reminded th…

[deleted]

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#68

Post by agumonkey »

Sharlin wrote: post #34
agumonkey wrote: post #25

Recently I do feel a global feeling of tiredness. The things we held as progress don't work, abundance feels void it seems now. Jobs aren't giving you a lot of money and even if so, it can't bring you much; we're all very high in material comfort. What we lack is appreciation and sharing. Maybe people will enjoy farming more, and doing things more because what we used to avoid to pursue ~higher jobs is now seen as bo…

Consumerism was always a lie. The idea of working more in order to earn more in order to buy more stuff to purportedly make us happier. Insofar as it did, it came with a terrible cost.

Here's I approach this, I was born at peak happy consumerism in a western society. It look weird to see how it backfires, and why people did that. But some book report how people may starve at times in the US. And when you starve and it's long and tiresome to go between places .. The idea of abundance seems like the obvious path. The problem comes from becoming blind and chasing our own tails. We need to fast.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#69

Post by agumonkey »

specialist wrote: post #42
agumonkey wrote: post #25

Recently I do feel a global feeling of tiredness. The things we held as progress don't work, abundance feels void it seems now. Jobs aren't giving you a lot of money and even if so, it can't bring you much; we're all very high in material comfort. What we lack is appreciation and sharing. Maybe people will enjoy farming more, and doing things more because what we used to avoid to pursue ~higher jobs is now seen as bo…

I feels ya. A few years ago, I got pretty worked up about my state killing an entire wolf pack, just to protect some cows. So I got involved. I learned a lot. Ranchers are people too. I really loved these people. It was just one bad apple, deliberate repeat offender, causing all the problems. Everyone else was totally onboard towards creating a better future. Ranching is unsustainable. And they (the families) know it…

Be warned about Allan savory, I liked his talk a lot, but it seems he's selling snake oil procedures (a few people tried to rebuke him online, I'm not knowledgeable enough to know who's right but it made me shift my stance nonetheless).

And about meat, some cultures enjoy eating way less meat, surely we could reduce the quantity, so that farmers can go back to simpler ways, and probably enjoy a lot more quality too.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#70

Post by dabbledash »

drenvuk wrote: post #31

The author has two articles, one is this one and the other makes a case for veganism. I understand that killing animals for their meat strikes some people as morally wrong but you're not going to change my mind by making me feel bad about how a cow, pig or chicken is raised and killed. This is not a moral problem for most people. We don't really care enough. We eat them because they taste good, are easily available a…

“People cause suffering because they value pleasure and lack empathy” sure sounds like a moral problem, but I hear you that just telling people to be better is unlikely to improve things.
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