Time to End Factory Farming? • Hacker News Board

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#41

Post by throwaway8879 » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 12:21 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #36

drenvuk wrote: post #31

The author has two articles, one is this one and the other makes a case for veganism. I understand that killing animals for their meat strikes some people as morally wrong but you're not going to change my mind by making me feel bad about how a cow, pig or chicken is raised and killed. This is not a moral problem for most people. We don't really care enough. We eat them because they taste good, are easily available a…

The fact that it's illegal to film factory meat farms in some States in the USA should tell you a lot about just what is going on - and how horrible it must be. Sure, you want to eat steak, I get that. Go eat a steak. But lets at the very least treat the animals with respect and give them some semblance of a decent life and kill them quickly and humanely.

You want to treat something with respect and then kill it to eat it? What exactly is the point?

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#42

Post by specialist » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 12:21 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #25

Recently I do feel a global feeling of tiredness. The things we held as progress don't work, abundance feels void it seems now. Jobs aren't giving you a lot of money and even if so, it can't bring you much; we're all very high in material comfort. What we lack is appreciation and sharing. Maybe people will enjoy farming more, and doing things more because what we used to avoid to pursue ~higher jobs is now seen as bo…

I feels ya.

A few years ago, I got pretty worked up about my state killing an entire wolf pack, just to protect some cows. So I got involved. I learned a lot.

Ranchers are people too. I really loved these people. It was just one bad apple, deliberate repeat offender, causing all the problems. Everyone else was totally onboard towards creating a better future.

Ranching is unsustainable. And they (the families) know it.

Skipping to the end... My predictions:

#1 Laboratory meat will largely eliminate factory farming. It will completely upend our (Western) agricultural economy. Huge reduction in feed grains, pesticides, fertilizers, etc. Massive improvement in waste management. It can't happen soon enough. My uneducated guess is 10-20 year transition. All us tree huggers should work to expedite.

#2 To continue, ranchers will need to go up market. Artisan, bespoke meat.

#3 We will pay ranchers to restore habitat. This will make up for their loss of income from selling meat. And hopefully keep families working the land.

"How to fight desertification and reverse climate change" https://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_worl...

#4 Trend towards direct micromanagement of animals (wild and domesticated) and habitat will continue. GPS tags, drones, IoT for soil monitoring & management, satellite imagery, adapt to weather predictions, etc. Even more so than my grandfather's day, future farmers and ranchers will be high tech entrepreneurs, knowledgable in tech, business, accounting / finance.

In conclusion: I know our current situation is bleak. There is a way forward, out of this mess. Keep the faith.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#43

Post by rhythnic » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 12:23 PM UTC

Where do the Christians stand on this issue? If there's one single group that has the power to calibrate people's moral compass on this issue, is would be clergymen. As another person said, people just don't care. People are on the whole an exploitative and unsympathetic species. They'll continue eating factory farmed meat and buying sweatshop clothing, much more than necessary. But in the US at least, where 77% of people identify as Christan, if preachers took issue with these things, they could make an impact on how their congregation spends money.

A preacher who actually targeted moral atrocities would be seen as radical, and would most likely lose the church members and money. And so church will continue to be large ornate buildings with large parking lots filled with luxury cars where people hear about their salvation, while wearing sweatshop clothing and then eat barbeque afterwords, instead of a place that actually makes a difference.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#44

Post by snarfy » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 12:23 PM UTC

My sister tried to get a job at a factory farm. She found there weren't many openings as they primarily employ prisoners through work programs. They employ prisoners because nobody wants those jobs. Even the prisoners would chose a different work program given the option.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#45

Post by tobr » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 12:23 PM UTC

drenvuk wrote: post #31

The author has two articles, one is this one and the other makes a case for veganism. I understand that killing animals for their meat strikes some people as morally wrong but you're not going to change my mind by making me feel bad about how a cow, pig or chicken is raised and killed. This is not a moral problem for most people. We don't really care enough. We eat them because they taste good, are easily available a…

> they taste good, are easily available and are satiating. Vegan and vegetarian foods are usually less so for all three categories.

This might be true for some people in some places, but is far from an objective fact. I'm not a vegetarian, but I frequently prefer to eat vegan or vegetarian food because it offers more interesting flavours, is easily available and easy to cook, and leaves me with a more pleasant fullness.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#46

Post by throwaway8879 » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 12:23 PM UTC

autopoiesis wrote: post #37

drenvuk wrote: post #31

The author has two articles, one is this one and the other makes a case for veganism. I understand that killing animals for their meat strikes some people as morally wrong but you're not going to change my mind by making me feel bad about how a cow, pig or chicken is raised and killed. This is not a moral problem for most people. We don't really care enough. We eat them because they taste good, are easily available a…

The advantage of having a human brain is that you can think about your actions and the consequences they have. Eating meat, especially mass-produced beef, is catastrophic for the environment. Well done on destroying the systems you depend on to live.

Why should I care about the environment? I'll be dead in 30 years. I'm not having kids. And I don't care about the survival of the species. I don't depend on it by choice. If someone asked me before I was born, I'd say no thanks I don't want any part of existence. But since I was conceived without my consent, I'll live however I can't to, the environment be damned.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#47

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 12:23 PM UTC

drenvuk wrote: post #35

johnmoberg wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that many people would care, they just aren't aware. How many people know, or even want to know , where their meat comes from? Factory farming is very much an inconvenient truth.

I only have possibly skewed anecdata for this claim but of the people who I know have seen factory farming investigation videos only two are vegetarians and the rest of them (20+ easily over time) have used it as a joke topic while eating meat laden meals together. This is from college 10 years ago until now. I think sharing these articles helps, maybe it will spur someone into making some new animal-cruelty-free foo…

[deleted]

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#48

Post by fiblye » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 12:24 PM UTC

TarpitCarnivore wrote: post #28

latch wrote: post #2

How can you be against cruelty to animals and still regularly consume meat? This question I ask sincerely. There are other equally ethical considerations: global warming, land use, energy/water use, etc. I feel that any one of these should give most people pause.

To add to this: If you don't eat meat because of ethical & environmental reasons, but still consume fish I ask you to take a good long look into the impact we've had on global fisheries.

In terms of environmental sustainability, chicken is the best value of any meat. It's about as an efficient feed:meat ratio as you can get, their waste is reusable, and they're certainly not going extinct.

The moral problem, though, is it takes more chicken deaths to get an equal amount of meat as almost any other farm animal. One cow gives you as much meat as a few hundred chickens, so you're killing hundreds more chickens each year to feed a family than if you fed them beef.

So if you are eating meat (I do) and you want to try being ethical about it, total environmental harm and total death numbers are generally on polar opposite sides. Justifying regular animal consumption in any environmental or ethical sense is pretty much impossible, unless people start eating exclusively overpopulated invasive species--but cannibalism generally isn't socially acceptable. :)

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#49

Post by throwaway8879 » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 12:25 PM UTC

Sharlin wrote: post #34

agumonkey wrote: post #25

Recently I do feel a global feeling of tiredness. The things we held as progress don't work, abundance feels void it seems now. Jobs aren't giving you a lot of money and even if so, it can't bring you much; we're all very high in material comfort. What we lack is appreciation and sharing. Maybe people will enjoy farming more, and doing things more because what we used to avoid to pursue ~higher jobs is now seen as bo…

Consumerism was always a lie. The idea of working more in order to earn more in order to buy more stuff to purportedly make us happier. Insofar as it did, it came with a terrible cost.

When exactly in human history did people live in an Utopia of happiness? Misery and suffering has always been prevalent for the majority of the human species.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#50

Post by throwaway8879 » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 12:25 PM UTC

gdhbcc wrote: post #22

latch wrote: post #2

How can you be against cruelty to animals and still regularly consume meat? This question I ask sincerely. There are other equally ethical considerations: global warming, land use, energy/water use, etc. I feel that any one of these should give most people pause.

I'm not against cruelty to animals.

Agreed.