Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#281

Post by amorphous » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 4:05 PM UTC

darkr wrote: post #142

justinhj wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've instinctively done this for the last little while (I'm approaching my 50s). I list the last handful of jobs and no dates on the university courses etc. I don't put a huge list of languages and technology I've used, just the most recent and relevant. Not having problems so far.

As a hiring manager involved in many hires over the past few years, this is excellent advice for anyone with ~10 years or more of experience.

What I don't understand is: will the age not eventually come out? When meeting face to face or little things someone says it shouldn't be too difficult to estimate the age of someone.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#282

Post by amorphous » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 4:06 PM UTC

zhobbs wrote: post #146

Consider hiring a resume writer. The guy I hired was older, and had some very specific techniques to combat ageism (I'm still pretty young, but was good to learn about them).

Can you give a recommendation?

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#283

Post by arandr0x » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 4:50 PM UTC

heddingcal wrote: post #125

joewee wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to list a few for those who might be looking for something like that?

I work at SAP. I'd say we're pretty neutral on age - I work with people 20 years younger to 2 years older than me. I think I've put in maybe two 40+ hour weeks in the past 5 years. I manage several devs and I hate dashing the younger (or ambitious) ones' dreams of resume driven development. My team handles a legacy system that neither crashes frequently nor needs extensive refactoring. "Sorry, cutting up and containe…

What do you recommend to the younger or ambitious devs who want to grow in their career -- do you send them to training or let them have a side project of some kind so that they still have a somewhat valuable resume, or is it more a question of trying not to get junior devs (who need the resume building badly) in the first place?

I'm curious because I work at a big company but not in a maintenance or operational role so I'm not sure what an "ideal" resume or career track looks like for such people.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#284

Post by anonOver60 » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

techcode wrote: post #242

Reading through your comments/replies (e.g.: "knack for listening to customer", "generalist", "can setup machines"...etc) make me think I'll be in your shoes once I reach your age... Hence I have to ask - any advice you would give to younger self? Should I focus on having some/one/few "unique selling propositions" - something I can say I'm expert in? And what would those be? Anyway back to trying to give you (and oth…

The advice I've given to younger generalists like me is to force yourself to become an expert on something. That's what people are used to seeing when they are hiring. Pick something long-lasting like databases or search or machine learning.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#285

Post by mattlondon » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

datavirtue wrote: post #254

mattlondon wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect I think that those characteristics could equally apply to anyone - old, young or somewhere in the middle. I wouldn't say any of those are specific to people approaching their retirement age. For example I interviewed someone in their early 20s a little while ago who knew Angular 1 inside-out and to the absolute finest detail, but that is obsolete now that we're on Angular 6/React etc - they had never use…

"I am sure they could both pick up the new skills just as easily." Then what is the relevance of your harping on thier proficiency with slightly older same Ole crap tech?

I was refuting the statement about older people potentially not "keeping relevant" in tech. My example was an early 20s person who was also not relevant in tech, despite not being "old".

Not keeping relevant is not a problem related to age was the point I was trying to make, but actually applies to all ages equally.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#286

Post by dep_b » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:47 PM UTC

ncmncm wrote: post #278

dep_b wrote: post #105

Well US companies don't ask for details that could give away your age. I mean removing the date of your graduation and only including the last 10 ("relevant") years of your experience is not a crime in any sense. I don't feel my age is as much a problem as raising my rates. That definitely makes things a bit more challenging. I have two experiences in the last year that were a bit strange. One was a guy that kind of…

Management gets some vague benefits if they have more recognized minority-category people on staff. (No benefits for hiring older employees, of course.)

> recognized minority-category people

That was the term!

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#287

Post by mattlondon » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:48 PM UTC

rightbyte wrote: post #169

mattlondon wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect I think that those characteristics could equally apply to anyone - old, young or somewhere in the middle. I wouldn't say any of those are specific to people approaching their retirement age. For example I interviewed someone in their early 20s a little while ago who knew Angular 1 inside-out and to the absolute finest detail, but that is obsolete now that we're on Angular 6/React etc - they had never use…

Obsolete? Is this sarcasm? Angular 1 vs 6? Like, how can the burden of getting up to speed in a later version of the same framework even compare to that of getting your head into all legacy company code and how the coffe machine at the office is refilled? "Oh, .Net 3.5 you say? We do 4.0 here. We call you back." Coding has barely changed since the 60s. The screens are bigger. It's the programs that have evolved not t…

My point I was trying to make was that not staying relevant in tech is not unique to "old" people.

The early 20s person who went deep with angular 1 may not have "kept relevant", but that is no reason to outright reject them (or someone 30-40 years their senior) on its own. I am sure they (and "old" people) would easily be able to get up to speed.

As you said, programming has largely remained unchanged at a fundamental level.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#288

Post by anonOver60 » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:48 PM UTC

mojomark wrote: post #62

Your resume sounds interesting to me. If you're willing to relocate to DC (although there could be some west coast or consultant type roles), we are looking for folks with your type of background to enhance our AI capabilities. At the level you describe, we're looking for active/direct leadership. I'm an engineer myself, not a recruiter, but if you want to post an email, I'll take your resume and share it with the ri…

I do like the DC area but we have kids living in the Bay Area and my wife doesn't want to move away from them. If there is some way to work with you with that constraint I'd be interested.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#289

Post by anonOver60 » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:50 PM UTC

darreld wrote: post #248

anonOver60 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I would appreciate some advice on this. I truly don't know what services to sell. I can set up machines, design databases, write graph algorithms, train machine learning models, design web services, etc. But I'm not a "leading expert" on any of those things. I'm a generalist and usually have an answer for any problem I run into simply because I've run into it before. How do I market myself as a general prob…

I'm in the exact same boat and would love to hear some ideas.

There should be a market for people like us. My personal network is not large enough to build a practice around. Have you had any ideas on this?

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#290

Post by anonOver60 » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:52 PM UTC

vertol wrote: post #86

My team would like to take a look at your resume. Shoot me an email with your resume (and linkedin profile link if you have one) at vertol.next@gmail.com.

I'm sorry - my brain says "recruiter" when I read your message for some reason. I'm not sure what it is pattern matching on. If you can assure me that you're not a recruiter I'd be happy to send you my resume, although a little more information about what your company does would be helpful.