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Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

reuters.com

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Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#31

Post by dantheman »

OvermindDL1 wrote: post #27
ethbro wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the West, I'd say democracy has generally been fairly stable... but the forces opposed to it have strengthened or weakened over time. Anything which deconcentrates or destroys capital (rapid innovation, war) relatively strengthens democracy. An age of peace, and lack of political will to prevent innovation-capture by current monopolies, results in democracy weakening relative to commercial interests.

Not in the United States it's not at least. Even just the recent net neutrality pubic votes don't match what was done in the slightest. The USA is an oligarchy through and through.

There are many who don't want the government involved in 'net neutrality.' The FCC under Obama was acting in an antidemocratic manner when they claimed authority to enforce net neutrality. The executive expanding its power without the interaction of congress is far more anti-democratic than a vote that turned out a way that you didn't like.

There are many who think the net is evolving in a great way and want to limit government interference until their is a real problem. If there's a real problem then pass a law and deal with the problem. Often times these harmless laws have terrible consequences and are difficult to undo.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#32

Post by bhtru »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #23
endorphone wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring that you can change the search engine, what Google knows about a user using Google search on an iPhone, and a user using search on a Google Play Android device are extraordinarily different. Let's not pretend at some false equivalency here.

No, they are exactly the same. Despite what Apple marketing would like you to believe, the search app collects the same information when you perform the same actions on both devices.

Is it incorrect to believe that there’s more telemetry sent to Google on an Android device vs an iPhone? IIRC, Google specific cookies in Chrome desktop can’t necessarily be turned off by typical methods so can we infer that a device running Android has more monitoring a la that vein than an iPhone?

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#33

Post by Aditya_Garg »

SteveGregory wrote: post #30

I've wondered what would happen if Apple acquired DuckDuckGo. In theory, Apple could overpay a lot and still make a ridiculous return by using it as their default search engine. The usage would multiply overnight. It would also reinforce Apple's position on privacy, and make Apple less dependent on Google for revenue.

DuckDuckGo is not it's own search engine. It's an aggregator of other search engines (mostly Bing).

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#34

Post by lovich »

dantheman wrote: post #31
OvermindDL1 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the United States it's not at least. Even just the recent net neutrality pubic votes don't match what was done in the slightest. The USA is an oligarchy through and through.

There are many who don't want the government involved in 'net neutrality.' The FCC under Obama was acting in an antidemocratic manner when they claimed authority to enforce net neutrality. The executive expanding its power without the interaction of congress is far more anti-democratic than a vote that turned out a way that you didn't like. There are many who think the net is evolving in a great way and want to limit…

Are many people != Large majority. The large majority publicly backed net neutrality and then the government choice the opposite choice, which only helped a set of large, rich companies.

Yes in a democracy you will frequently deal with votes not going the way you want. Having powerful groups who can get the law changed to benefit them is a different issue and is indicative of a de facto oligarchy

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#35

Post by skybrian »

l3robot wrote: post #15

Disclaimer: I am not an historian nor a sociologist nor a political scientist. It is pure intuition, so please correct me if you find me wrong. This kind of article recalling the war declared between Apple and Google by strong characters (reaching almost royal admiration) like Steve Jobs and showing their alliance now forced by economical benefits, brings to my head an observation I make for some years now. It feels…

The US is deeply divided. But in the EU, you can see what government power can do. In the end, even very large companies have to follow the law.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#36

Post by parthdesai »

ethbro wrote: post #22
l3robot wrote: post #15

Disclaimer: I am not an historian nor a sociologist nor a political scientist. It is pure intuition, so please correct me if you find me wrong. This kind of article recalling the war declared between Apple and Google by strong characters (reaching almost royal admiration) like Steve Jobs and showing their alliance now forced by economical benefits, brings to my head an observation I make for some years now. It feels…

At least in the West, I'd say democracy has generally been fairly stable... but the forces opposed to it have strengthened or weakened over time. Anything which deconcentrates or destroys capital (rapid innovation, war) relatively strengthens democracy. An age of peace, and lack of political will to prevent innovation-capture by current monopolies, results in democracy weakening relative to commercial interests.

>At least in the West, I'd say democracy has generally been fairly stable

Preface: I'm happy to be corrected, since i'm not very well-versed in this topic.

In the US, is it even a democracy when a new party can't come up and win an election? You can legally lobby for a party which in reality is just a fancy word for a bribe, so how do you expect either of these parties to have a common's person best interest in mind when it comes to making policies?

Compare this to India, where a person went on a strike, and then a group of people formed a party with the said person and he ended up becoming the Chief Minister of Delhi. Now, did he turn out to be good or not is another debate, but my point is, people were fed up with established parties, and it was actually possible for a new person to form a party and make a government out of it. Majority of the population wanted a change, and it was possible for them to get it.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#37

Post by wnkrshm »

skybrian wrote: post #35
l3robot wrote: post #15

Disclaimer: I am not an historian nor a sociologist nor a political scientist. It is pure intuition, so please correct me if you find me wrong. This kind of article recalling the war declared between Apple and Google by strong characters (reaching almost royal admiration) like Steve Jobs and showing their alliance now forced by economical benefits, brings to my head an observation I make for some years now. It feels…

The US is deeply divided. But in the EU, you can see what government power can do. In the end, even very large companies have to follow the law.

As an EU citizen, I've thought about this for a bit and I think that maybe it is more because the large companies being targets for regulation atm (FAANG) are not EU companies.

See for example how protective the US has been of Monsanto in the past and now that Bayer has swallowed it, lots of lawsuits are suddenly underway and scandals pop up.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#38

Post by lern_too_spel »

bhtru wrote: post #32
lern_too_spel wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they are exactly the same. Despite what Apple marketing would like you to believe, the search app collects the same information when you perform the same actions on both devices.

Is it incorrect to believe that there’s more telemetry sent to Google on an Android device vs an iPhone? IIRC, Google specific cookies in Chrome desktop can’t necessarily be turned off by typical methods so can we infer that a device running Android has more monitoring a la that vein than an iPhone?

Yes, it is incorrect. Using Chrome on Android also sends the exact same information as Chrome on iOS.

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#39

Post by johannes1234321 »

parthdesai wrote: post #36
ethbro wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the West, I'd say democracy has generally been fairly stable... but the forces opposed to it have strengthened or weakened over time. Anything which deconcentrates or destroys capital (rapid innovation, war) relatively strengthens democracy. An age of peace, and lack of political will to prevent innovation-capture by current monopolies, results in democracy weakening relative to commercial interests.

>At least in the West, I'd say democracy has generally been fairly stable Preface: I'm happy to be corrected, since i'm not very well-versed in this topic. In the US, is it even a democracy when a new party can't come up and win an election? You can legally lobby for a party which in reality is just a fancy word for a bribe, so how do you expect either of these parties to have a common's person best interest in mind…

The question is: Why can't a new party come up? Is it due to the system itself or the "will of the people"?

The other question is: How democratic are those parties? - he primaries seem as such ...

Re: Finance makes Apple and Google forced friends

#40

Post by tomc1985 »

dantheman wrote: post #31
OvermindDL1 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the United States it's not at least. Even just the recent net neutrality pubic votes don't match what was done in the slightest. The USA is an oligarchy through and through.

There are many who don't want the government involved in 'net neutrality.' The FCC under Obama was acting in an antidemocratic manner when they claimed authority to enforce net neutrality. The executive expanding its power without the interaction of congress is far more anti-democratic than a vote that turned out a way that you didn't like. There are many who think the net is evolving in a great way and want to limit…

According to the ratio of public comments accepted by the FCC, the "many" who think the net is evolving are something like 3%
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