ZXSpectrum Next is exactly this. An old ZXSpectrum computer that is newly made with more RAM and in a much better package. Complete with lots of games you can get. I think they're always out though....not sure if we'll ever see more :(
Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?
241–250 of 340 posts
Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
I understand, in a sense, what you mean (since I am of an earlier generation than the one which learned programming on that particular platform), but why should that necessarily be true? Hasn’t it always been the case that the current generation skips learning about useless lower layers used by older generations? How could it be that the layers you grew up are the special ones which are still useful, when all the lay…
Despite being an open language, Swift (and Playgrounds) is an effort to usher children into the Apple tent. BASIC (essentially any 3GL) never wore such a veil. To suggest discrete logic and IC-level assembly compares to issuing commands via the LEGO Mindstorms protocol perfectly illustrates the chasm between learning and understanding.
Agreed. I'm a python beast, but really struggled with Assembly language in school. I'd have been better off with a ZXSpectrum earlier in life so I could've learned hardware. IMO high level languages (as insanely useful as they are) are similar to writing spells like a wizard and using assembly or even basic when you know all the registers...etc is more like a real science. Both are valuable, but I really wish I knew more about hardware.
Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?
#243Raspberry PI cab be said to be evolved from a ~ power-on-to-BASIC computer; to wit: the (BBC) Acorn Archimedes. You can still get RISC OS for it even. Basically, you power on; hit F12; *BASIC >_ and bob's your uncle: you get a nice BBC BASIC prompt at the bottom of your screen. https://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/raspberry-pi (that said, why not use pi + python? It's the new BASIC. And it supports turtle gra…
>why not use pi + python? Do you have experience with teaching python to kids? I am afraid to try it with my son because white space is important, I tried only Scratch and making him think as "a machine" is hard enough adding syntax errors on top would make the job much harder, let me know if you have experience with this and if you think I am wrong.
I run a Python user group for my city and there's a number of people who teach python to kids there. One tool that's gained a lot of traction is Pythonista (http://omz-software.com/pythonista/) which kids can use to code graphical games directly on an iOS device. Code Like a Girl introduces python to kids 8-years old and up as well. Personally I've had lots of success teaching python to my 12-year old step daughter. She's being taught javascript at school through App Lab and hasn't found the transition to be particularly difficult.
Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?
#244The closest thing I've found to this is Pico-8: not a computer, a piece of software, but it's very cool. It has a simple text editor for writing Lua code, a simple sprite editor, and a simple sound editor, all for creating games. It's a nice little sandbox for playing with code and creating things. https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php
There are a bunch of these "fantasy consoles" now. From a quick search: * Pico-8: https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php * Liko-12: https://liko-12.github.io/ * Tic-80: https://tic.computer/ * Pixel Vision 8: https://www.pixelvision8.com/ I have no idea how they compare to each other.
Tic-80 is slightly higher resolution than Pico-8, with a user-definable palette and a more standard lua implementation. The music editor is slightly less intuitive, though.
Pixel Vision 8 is more flexible and complex than the other alternatives. One KEY difference between it and the others is that you can define your own editor tools... but the way this is done means that you must save your work every time you switch from tool A to tool B, or your work in tool A will be lost! It also is built with a focus on interoperability with external tools; it isn't as focused as the others on being a cozy self-contained environment.
Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?
#245Hear me out here; Apple's Swift Playgrounds on an iPad. I'm involved in an extracurricular thing in Scotland focused on giving kids an environment they can figure out computers. We've seen a lot of different approaches to the problem of "how can we get kids to code", and Swift Playgrounds is consistently where we see youngfolk making the most progress. It gives you a nice, guided framework to get the very basics of p…
I'd wager that a complete 8-bit system with printer and cassette storage is a better tool for learning.
I'd wager that the better tool for learning is the one that gets kids to engage. They're not going to engage on an 8-bit system with printer and cassette storage, but they will with something they can make a pretty game and control a drone.
Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's silly. Javascript requires all kinds of knowledge to get started; what does this code mean, how do you hook it into a page, what is DOM, etc. That's a lot to ask of a 10-yr old. Meanwhile, any 10-yr old can understand this code: 10 PRINT "Hey there Joe" 20 GOTO 10 Boom. Functional program. Instant gratification. That will be the last program this person ever writes that provides such instant reward, but neverm…
This is a key point. The cognitive distance between power on and "10 print" is nothing. The cognitive distance between all modern ways to teach programming is vast.
Not really. $('h1').html('Billy Named Emperor') to hack around with web pages is actually super easy.
Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can teach someone how to make a button blink in JavaScript in ten minutes. I don't have to explain what line numbers are. I only have to teach some very rudimentary HTML. From there they can absorb more knowledge and do really cool things. That BASIC program is garbage and nobody cares. Seeing your name on a screen doesn't carry the same thrill it did in 1985. Show someone PONG today and they will wonder if you're…
You want the Lego set with a bunch of custom blocks to make the perfect model. Other people want the generic set of blocks.
That's called Minecraft and it's a thousand times more fun than BASIC.
It's also scriptable with Lua, so...
Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?
#248For those of us who grew up in the 8-bit era, this has a lot of appeal since that's how we got engaged. But for most kids today, is this sort of ab initio approach really the right way to go about it? Based on my experience with a few different types of kids/personalities, I'm skeptical. Dropping them into the command line / IDE of any language / environment is likely to leave them both unimpressed and lost. Neither…
Kids have it too easy today, they don't have to work very hard to get decent computing experiences, and its not like they have to do any programming at all to have fun. It is also super easy to get addicted to just consuming all the time. It is quite depressing. My kid is still a toddler, but I think I might put a stripped down CLI-only computer in his room when he reaches 5 so he can at least play with it if he want…
And it it will sit in a dusty pile in the corner
Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?
#249Get them Mathematica.
There's a lot of cool stuff you can do with Mathematica and it is available for free on Pi, but some people will take offense at closed source proprietary software and for good reason. Some things in the Wolfram language are so amazing though. Stephen Wolfram has commented on how bad highschool CS education is. Learning hello world and some Java or JS is great, but being able to seamlessly use the thousands of functions in Mathematica is really neat. For example, things like Conway's Game of Life, other automata, sound processing, image processing, neural networks...etc are all built in and composable primitives. The big downside is you're really just learning their tech stack and you often use a declarative approach, so they may miss out on imperative concepts (for loops are a code smell in wolfram language).
Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lucky you. Here the school districts were partitioned along different brands of computer. One would have Amiga, one Macintosh, the others a mix of C64/PET. Mine had, for reasons nobody could ever explain, settled on the Unisys ICON system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unisys_ICON Nobody knew how it worked, and all you could do with them was look up books in the library or run some terrible typing tutor program. Ever…
> Here the school districts were partitioned along different brands of computer. And...what does that have to do with it? My elementary school had a handful of TI-99/4As. Oh, and a single PET. Others, sure, had different systems. > Everyone's personal computer, which was extremely rare to have, would be some random thing. C64 for one person, Sinclair for another. Yes, same here, except the “extremely rare to have”; m…
The reason that was a problem was someone who worked hard to figure out how the TI machine worked was dead in the water when it came to the C64. Apple ][ people couldn't help you with anything other than the most basic of questions, beyond that it was all arcane hacks to get anything to happen.
When the C64 was a thing I'd estimate 50% of the students I knew had an NES or other console (Colecovision!) and maybe 20% had some kind of computer, most of which were different, incompatible models.
Nobody knew anything about anything, and getting advice from professionals was never going to happen.