Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 340 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#211

Post by lupire »

khazhou wrote: post #137
bsenftner wrote: post #53

"Back in the day" the BASIC language made sense, as it was right at your prompt in text based interfaces. The same situation today is the web browser, and the ability to open up the developer's console and getting direct access to a web site's JavaScript, html & CSS. Forget BASIC, and introduce your kids to web developing. They will "get it" much faster than "boring dumb BASIC, can't do web stuff, it sucks."

A huge part of the appeal of C64-style BASIC is the lack of distractions. I mean, you're already talking about CSS! :-) A better match than Javascript (which doesn't have an interactive console, and HTML+JS is event-driven) would be Python.

a web browser has an interactive console.

node.js has a text console if you don't want the web browser attached.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#212

Post by lupire »

This seems overcomplicated, asking for setup that suits the parents' nostalgia instead of useful and attractive to the modern child.

Just grab any handy compiter, open an interpreter window / shell console for the language of your choice, and let the kid play and learn.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#213

Post by throwthisinthe »

nyjah wrote: post #190
JacobJans wrote: post #178

This post reminds me of a running line of thought that's been going on in my head for quite some time: "Single Purpose Devices." The main disadvantage of most computing devices is that they offer too many options; making them mentally unwieldy. A "single purpose device" is created to support just one purpose. The Kindle is perhaps the most famous example; it practically created an industry. Sure, it can do more than…

I know I am lucky to have this setup, but I keep 2 laptops and 2 tower computers or 4 separate computers. 1 for biz, 1 for downloading and email, 1pc for gaming, and 1 for activities best kept in private browsing..

So... a 'faptop'?

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#214

Post by WillPostForFood »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #93
blihp wrote: post #81

For those of us who grew up in the 8-bit era, this has a lot of appeal since that's how we got engaged. But for most kids today, is this sort of ab initio approach really the right way to go about it? Based on my experience with a few different types of kids/personalities, I'm skeptical. Dropping them into the command line / IDE of any language / environment is likely to leave them both unimpressed and lost. Neither…

Kids have it too easy today, they don't have to work very hard to get decent computing experiences, and its not like they have to do any programming at all to have fun. It is also super easy to get addicted to just consuming all the time. It is quite depressing. My kid is still a toddler, but I think I might put a stripped down CLI-only computer in his room when he reaches 5 so he can at least play with it if he want…

Yes and no. I agree they have it too easy as users. But it is harder to start programming because of the complexity of the tooling. Also, achieving something cool in code can be a bigger stretch than it used to be. When the pinnacle of gaming was a text adventure, a kid could come close to emulating it with a few dozen lines of code. Now kids are playing Fortnight which is not replicable without a large team of coders, artists, and millions of dollars.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#215

Post by CognitiveLens »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #205
JacobJans wrote: post #178

This post reminds me of a running line of thought that's been going on in my head for quite some time: "Single Purpose Devices." The main disadvantage of most computing devices is that they offer too many options; making them mentally unwieldy. A "single purpose device" is created to support just one purpose. The Kindle is perhaps the most famous example; it practically created an industry. Sure, it can do more than…

Something seems off about learning general-purpose programming on a single-purpose device. How would you run your programs?

Many terminal-based programming environments allow you to run code - you essentially just need a REPL, but there are more sophisticated environments that could still be considered 'single purpose'

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#216

Post by majormajor »

lotyrin wrote: post #161
majormajor wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this so new? 25 years ago kids were addicted to cable/phone/Genesis/VHS and never "had" to do any programming to have any fun, either. There was a phase where people expected that people starting on iPhones even younger than people started on Windows in 1993 would make them more technologically literate, but that was optimistic - they're iPhone-literate to the same level kids then were Windows-literate. Actually u…

Somewhat affluent kids maybe. As a preteen in the 90s I had an uncle's hand-me-down 80s console (NES) with like two cartridges and 80s computer with a few pieces of shareware game demos that I hand to know CLI commands and manage files to start plus a basic interpreter. My (nearly infinite seeming now) time was spent staring at the wall, sitting in rural nature, building things out of my whopping ~80 off-brand lego b…

How many of your peers took the same path you did? Sounds like 0, and instead that they had completely different interests. I'm skeptical that (a) having a hand me down computer with a Basic interpreter but also (b) not having "more addictive" TV, music, or more video games/rentals/friends with consoles was a common situation.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#217

Post by [deleted] »

Kadin wrote: post #125
simion314 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>why not use pi + python? Do you have experience with teaching python to kids? I am afraid to try it with my son because white space is important, I tried only Scratch and making him think as "a machine" is hard enough adding syntax errors on top would make the job much harder, let me know if you have experience with this and if you think I am wrong.

Python seems like a nice update to what BASIC was in the 8-bit era. Real-time interpreter so you get instant feedback, including very simple imperative syntax. (IMO any introductory programming environment that doesn't let you do something like 10 PRINT BUTTS 20 GOTO 10 and get BUTTS BUTTS BUTTS... out of it is a failure to launch.) But unlike BASIC, Python will grow with you and you can use it for non-trivial projec…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#218

Post by jedieaston »

emmanueloga_ wrote: post #208
emmanueloga_ wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a bunch of these "fantasy consoles" now. From a quick search: * Pico-8: https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php * Liko-12: https://liko-12.github.io/ * Tic-80: https://tic.computer/ * Pixel Vision 8: https://www.pixelvision8.com/ I have no idea how they compare to each other.

Oh damn, such a rabbit hole :-p. Also found this list [1]. A couple on the list run BASIC! E.g. [2]. I just learned there's this thing "Windows 10 IoT", [3] a Win10 version for low power devices like the raspberri pi. Would be interesting to try to run B8 in there! 1: https://github.com/paladin-t/fantasy 2: https://store.steampowered.com/app/767240/BASIC8/ 3: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot/Download…

Windows 10 IoT can't run Win32 applications, so Steam and BASIC8 won't work without major re-tuning.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#219

Post by WillPostForFood »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #154
shaunxcode wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are selling kids/newly hatched geeks short. They have also been raised on google and youtube - both places they can find out how to do nearly anything related to programming and game dev. I would have done anything to get access to that info when I was 11 and trying to figure out how to make sega genesis games!

Information overload. Sure, those gems are there. But they are buried under a proverbial mountain of crap.

You should see what kids are doing with Minecraft. I've had to watch videos made by 12 year olds because I couldn't figure out how to install mods. They not only are doing the videos, but creating the mods.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#220

Post by andrewstuart »

There's quite some distance between unboxing a Raspberry Pi and getting basic on a screen versus unboxing a BBC/Acorn to basic on the screen.

I'd like it if there was a genuine retro computer remake like a C64 or really any of those old machines.

When I say genuine I mean not an FPGA thing that looks the same and has the same feel but inside is a modern FPGA.

I mean a computer with a real 6502 or Z80, "power on to basic" plus a real keyboard.

There's so much old great books and educational materials for those old machines too.

The problem with modern retro remakes is that they focus on being about games and ROMs and I can't think of any with a nice keyboard.

Post reply on HN