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Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

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Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#191

Post by crispytx »

Retro/Vintage computing enthusiast here. I actually got into playing around with old computers because I was interested in using a computer that simply ran Microsoft BASIC for the operating system. Much simpler times! But yeah, I don't think there is anything out there right now like what you're talking about. I would suggest simply purchasing a retro computer if you want to teach your kids the old school way. Python is a pretty good substitute for BASIC in my opinion, the only problem is you have to teach object-oriented stuff if your students want to make anything interesting with graphics. (I teach kids to code btw, thus my interest in the topic)

EDIT: I forgot to mention FreeBASIC. With FreeBASIC you can do a lot of stuff the old school way, including graphics. However, I haven't actually gotten around to playing with FreeBASIC yet so I don't have a whole lot to say about it.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#192

Post by JacobJans »

nyjah wrote: post #190
JacobJans wrote: post #178

This post reminds me of a running line of thought that's been going on in my head for quite some time: "Single Purpose Devices." The main disadvantage of most computing devices is that they offer too many options; making them mentally unwieldy. A "single purpose device" is created to support just one purpose. The Kindle is perhaps the most famous example; it practically created an industry. Sure, it can do more than…

I know I am lucky to have this setup, but I keep 2 laptops and 2 tower computers or 4 separate computers. 1 for biz, 1 for downloading and email, 1pc for gaming, and 1 for activities best kept in private browsing..

Very interesting. What kind of software do you have on the computers? Is there anything, beyond the physical separation, that supports the purpose of each device?

(Maybe something as simple as physical location, color, a "sticker", or something else altogether.)

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#193

Post by seanmcdirmid »

anigbrowl wrote: post #172
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids have it too easy today, they don't have to work very hard to get decent computing experiences, and its not like they have to do any programming at all to have fun. It is also super easy to get addicted to just consuming all the time. It is quite depressing. My kid is still a toddler, but I think I might put a stripped down CLI-only computer in his room when he reaches 5 so he can at least play with it if he want…

Kids like you had it way too easy. When I was young you had to solder your own components together to make a calculator. Kids like me had it way too easy. When they were young they had to look things up in log tables and use slide rules. Etc. back to hunting wild beasts and digging vegetables out of the frozen ground

I'm sure I would have found some charm in using punchcards, but I think being 6-7 when PCs just first starting coming out was kind of a magical time on the threshhold, similar to when crystal radios started showing up in the 50s or cars started becoming viable in the early 1900s.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#194

Post by [deleted] »

JacobJans wrote: post #178

This post reminds me of a running line of thought that's been going on in my head for quite some time: "Single Purpose Devices." The main disadvantage of most computing devices is that they offer too many options; making them mentally unwieldy. A "single purpose device" is created to support just one purpose. The Kindle is perhaps the most famous example; it practically created an industry. Sure, it can do more than…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#195

Post by astrodust »

bdamm wrote: post #156
astrodust wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to get kids engaged, Minecraft is the best learning environment out there. You can get a computer that runs Lua in the game, and that thing can interact with devices and the environment. You can write a couple of lines of code that spawns pigs. From there anything's possible. Subjecting someone to the ridiculously spartan environment that is the READY prompt is the polar opposite of encouraging.

Interesting... I had no idea Lua was in Minecraft.

There's a number of mods for Minecraft that put Lua into the mix. One I was using (ComputerCraft?) had all the common UNIX commands implemented as things like ls.lua, so typing "ls" actually just ran a Lua script with the corresponding name.

You really couldn't get a more hackable computer.

These instances can have 4-16MB of memory allocated to them which honestly is way more than is necessary. They can make remote HTTP calls. With the right server settings they can even adjust the in-game weather to match the real world.

The possibilities are literally endless. A few lines of code can produce immediate results, and you can iterate and expand on that to make elaborate systems.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#196

Post by ChuckMcM »

Working on it... :-)

But not that I've seen. Some come closer than others.

The current suggestion is a Raspberry Pi type system that is manipulated into booting into a BASIC or some other development environment.

The closet thing right now is a micropython board.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#198

Post by astrodust »

itomato wrote: post #157
astrodust wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think BASIC was free and open have I got a letter from Bill Gates to show you. GCC is free and open. Clang is free and open. BASIC is commercial, proprietary, closed-source software. The "bedrock of computer science" is machine code, or if you're not a fan of reading and writing hex values or flipping physical switches on your Altair, then assembly. Everything after that is an abstraction.

Gates' copyrights on implementations of BASIC don't interest me. Blackjack, bubble sort and tower of hanoi in human-readable BASIC do. C isn't suitable for most K-8 students. Explain malloc while I handle PRINT, INPUT, PEEK and POKE. We'll meet at memory registers and see whose student feels more confident. You've created a layer cake of abstractions with your OS, advanced filesystem and C compiler (plus libraries).…

Your definition of "readable" is obviously a lot different than mine.

Consider DONKEY.BAS: https://github.com/coding-horror/donkey.bas/blob/master/donk...

Perl is more friendly and forgiving than that.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#199

Post by astrodust »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #153
astrodust wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think BASIC was free and open have I got a letter from Bill Gates to show you. GCC is free and open. Clang is free and open. BASIC is commercial, proprietary, closed-source software. The "bedrock of computer science" is machine code, or if you're not a fan of reading and writing hex values or flipping physical switches on your Altair, then assembly. Everything after that is an abstraction.

There are free and open BASIC interpreters and even compilers.

There are now, but this was not the case until relatively recently.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#200

Post by matt-daemon »

I saw some links to JSFiddle, but here's one that's maybe a little better (software-wise): Khan Academy [0]. It uses JavaScript, and they've added ProcessingJS wrappers so you don't have to use raw canvas API. They also have instructional videos and other content. It's also gamified. [1]

[0] https://www.khanacademy.org/computer-programming/new/pjs

[1] https://www.khanacademy.org/computing

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