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You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

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Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#261

Post by Xixi »

MrEfficiency wrote: post #86
sillyquiet wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet strangely, the loudest voices AGAINST doing away with tipping in favor of a wage are often wait staff themselves.

This seems like such a non-issue, I'm not sure why articles are written about tipping. Wait staff love tips because it gets them paid significantly more than if they worked a retail job. After visiting Europe, tips are necessary for good service. The rudeness and lack of service was culture shock.

Then go to Japan on your next trip, and you will realize that no, tips are not necessary at allow for excellent service. Not only that, but you will also realize that service in the United States is nothing to boast about.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#262

Post by SilasX »

tptacek wrote: post #251
SilasX wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're ever wondering what a good use for the term "virtue signaling" is, this comment would be it: advocacy of something impractical for the typical person but which makes you look good. "Just give money in every transaction that labels it a tip at PoS. What's the problem? Why do you have to think about whether the demand is merited? I can afford it, and I find it worthwhile to know I didn't break any rules."

That was a very rude way to make the point that you think some people can't afford to tip for their coffee shop muffin.

And that was a rude way to strawman my point that your "rule" is not about 80 cents, but about conceding to every such demand, and is therefore impractical as actionable advice for everyday life. (Making you look generous, and me unable to afford the tip on one coffee shop muffin, on the other hand...)

Edit: I would say it is indeed unreasonable to expect people to increase payment on any good by 20% merely on the chance that they might be expected to -- few people can afford 20% slack on every purchase. Also, I only brought up VS because I'd seen you question the utility of the concept and this seemed illustrative.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#263

Post by newguynewguy »

skrebbel wrote: post #14
Simulacra wrote: post #5

I don't feel guilt when they swivel that ipad around, more like annoyance. When I'm asked to tip for someone handing me a cup of coffee, I say no tip. We should really be pushing to get away from this relic of slavery, and don't tip unless it's absolutely clear we need to; i.e. at a sit down restaurant.

How is tipping at a sit down restaurant not a relic of slavery? The idea that restaurant personnel earn so little that they need to live on tips is barbarous.

I'm a manager in a US restaurant. I've run the numbers and, given the maximum price increases our market could bear, the upper 3/4ths of our wait staff would make ~$1-2 less an hour than they do now.

I was also a waiter in the restaurant. I hated the stress, but could find no jobs with comparable schedule flexibility/required qualifications that paid as well.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#264

Post by zaroth »

jasode wrote: post #240
tptacek wrote: post #209

Hacker News threads about tipping are always rough. US tipping is not complicated. You are being asked to share with a service worker's employer some of the burden of compensating them. The notion that you're rewarding exceptional service is a polite fiction. Depending on where you are, the tip is either expected or it isn't. Unfortunately for the mindset of a typical software developer, there won't be much clarity o…

> US tipping is not complicated. [...] just always tip. Anywhere there's a tip line. Well, it's been too complicated for me because the comments in this thread show I've been doing it wrong. For example, I sometimes picked up "to go" orders from Chili's restaurant[1]. In my mind, if I sat down to eat, I tipped the server. On the other hand, if I phoned in an order and picked it up, I didn't tip . Yes, I noticed that…

I dunno, I never tip on take-out. If I’m not sitting down and taking up a turn at a table, but still paying the price on the menu for the food, the tip is already there just in another form.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#265

Post by i88y6 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #225
i88y6 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's disgusting that the person who spends may 30 seconds providing service gets X% of the bill Yikes,wait till you find out how much the ACH and CC networks get for providing a fully automated service.

ACH and CC networks shoulder the burden of maintaining the system, fraud checks, chargebacks, etc. They provide a convenience function that lets me avoid having to carry cash around everyone, and lets the vendor minimize their cash-related costs. It's all worth the 2-5% they charge (and if you're paying more than that you've got bad negotiating skills). Cash isn't cheap--after security-related expenses, it costs just…

The merchant doesn't need "the system or fraud checks" to sell lattes. Furthermore they get hit with chargebacks, which are a feature offered by the CC, not the coffee shop. You're justying why business A shoulders business B's expense. That's like saying Visa should wipe down the espresso machine.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#266

Post by lh7777 »

minimaxir wrote: post #82

Semirelated question: how do you feel about tipping for Uber/Lyft? A few informal polls awhile ago ( https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/venessawong/theres-stil... ) couldn't come to a consensus.

I never tipped Uber drivers, but I stopped using Uber before they added the option to tip through the app. On Lyft, I've always tipped ~15% if the car was clean and the driving seemed safe, often more for Sometimes I take a regular cab home from the airport because the Port Authority has (seemingly) intentionally made using app-based services as inconvenient as possible. At least now everyone has Square for credit card payments, but the cab drivers often have the minimum automatic tip set to 25% (or even 30%!) so I have to take the time to manually enter something more reasonable. I'm sure they get a significant number of passengers who are in a hurry and can't be bothered to do so.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#267

Post by pkaye »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #36
Simulacra wrote: post #5

I don't feel guilt when they swivel that ipad around, more like annoyance. When I'm asked to tip for someone handing me a cup of coffee, I say no tip. We should really be pushing to get away from this relic of slavery, and don't tip unless it's absolutely clear we need to; i.e. at a sit down restaurant.

Ouch, having worked in cafes and restaurants as an undergrad I pretty much always tip 20%. Is it absurd? Of course, but given how badly most waitstaff are paid, the idea that you will somehow eliminate the practice by stiffing a few barristas seems both sadistic and highly unlikely to change the world. Until robots hand me muffins, I accept it as a tax on eating out.

Do you tip the workers at fast food chains?

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#268

Post by colemickens »

I don't know a single service worker or single former service worker that doesn't tip 15 or 20% as a minimum. Everywhere. The pay disparity between tech workers and service workers is so severe, it really pains and confuses me to see so much hand wringing about it.

And if you're protesting the tipping process by not tipping workers who make less than minimum wage, please don't go around acting like you're noble or better than those who tip (as has happened multiple times in this thread) That attitude serves nothing but to soothe your conscience.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#269

Post by logfromblammo »

Here is is again, the guide to tipping in the US. If you are not receiving an individually-tailored service, do not tip. Never tip based on an after-tax amount. If you receive any portion of your goods or services gratis, tip as though you were charged the full amount. When paying cash, round up to the nearest whole dollar. Never tip before the service has been rendered, and only tip if you are satisfied with it.

For restaurant table service, hair stylist, tattooing, or other personal care or beauty services, tip 15% of your before-tax bill total. Adjust 5% up or down in response to perceived service quality.

For a buffet restaurant or food delivery, tip 10% of your before-tax bill total. Do not adjust the amount; if the delivered order is incorrect or unforgivably tardy, do not tip.

For bartenders, tip at least 10% of your tab before you leave, minimum $1 per drink, even if you are paying by the drink. If service was not courteous and timely, do not tip. Just leave, and do not return. If you'll be getting too drunk to remember the tip at the end of the night, pay it as you go, with each drink. Don't tip in advance; that's for low-tippers who want to look like big shots. Baristas are not bartenders. If you want bar tips, get a liquor license and put booze in the coffee.

For restaurant counter service, drive-through, street stand, fair kiosk, or food truck, do not tip. This is the portion relevant to the article. You do not get a tip for a bog-standard service mandated by the employee manual. Operating the point-of-sale terminal and handing me the goods I just paid for is exactly that. No, I will not pay you 20% to hand me a muffin. If an employee suggests or implies that I should do so, I am less likely to return. If that tip suggestion is inappropriately embedded in the point-of-sale process, that's a management problem, and I definitely won't return.

For taxi/driver/shuttle service, tip 10% of the fare. Adjust upward for very good service, but do not tip less than 10% unless you are tipping nothing for very poor service.

For baggage handling or porter services, tip 1% the cost of your ticket, delivered item cost, or daily room rate, per bag/parcel, minimum $1 each.

For hotel concierge, 10% your daily room rate, per service, on checkout. For hotel maid service, tip 1% your daily room rate, per day, minimum $1, attached to a note at the end of each week, or left in the room on checkout.

For independent service contractors/small businesses, such as house cleaners or personal trainers, do not tip, but give an appreciation bonus if you wish on your yearly customer anniversary, or slightly in advance of the year-end holidays.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#270

Post by cardiffspaceman »

adrianmonk wrote: post #179
spdionis wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the problem the other way around? In Europe taxes are included in the price from the start.

No, those two things are orthogonal. The convention in the US is to compute the tip on the pre-tax amount. If the pre-tax price is $10, a 20% tip is $2 and 8% tax is $0.80, for a total of $12.80. Now, some of this software has come along and tried to sneak in a change to the formula where the tip is computed on the post-tax amount. They take $10, add 8% tax to get $10.80, and then compute 20% of that for the tip, for…

> They have deceptively changed the tip rate from 20% to 21.6%.

It's simply a bug. I got a suggested tip amount on a bar bill, the other day and it was clearly derived from the total of all the food and beverage, before taxes. It was all there in writing, and the figures were easy for me to check in my head.

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