Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment • Hacker News Board

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#171

Post by rb666 » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 10:57 AM UTC

aikah wrote: post #161

pjmlp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edge and Firefox are only missing Shadow DOM and Custom Elements, which they are already developing. On mobile Web 100% of the browsers support Web Components. https://www.webcomponents.org/ So what are the many popular browsers you refer to? As anything else is meaningless.

> Edge and Firefox are only missing Shadow DOM and Custom Elements, Your statement makes no sense whatsoever, they are "only missing" 2 of the most fundamental features of web components? that would actually help getting rid of all these incompatible UI toolkits? I don't call that supporting Web Components at all if you can't write custom elements natively. You obviously do not understand how the lack of support for…

Well, I mean, it's 1 week away from release...

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Rel...

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#172

Post by aikah » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 10:57 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #170

aikah wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Edge and Firefox are only missing Shadow DOM and Custom Elements, Your statement makes no sense whatsoever, they are "only missing" 2 of the most fundamental features of web components? that would actually help getting rid of all these incompatible UI toolkits? I don't call that supporting Web Components at all if you can't write custom elements natively. You obviously do not understand how the lack of support for…

Apparently you haven't read my comment as you missed "which they are already developing." and "100% support on mobile Web" part. Plus there are polyfills available for the meantime. So what other browsers are many popular ?

> Apparently you haven't read my comment as you missed "which they are already developing." part.

Apparently you haven't read my first comment either, since you can't tell the difference between "a spec is implemented" and "planning to implement a spec" which you obviously count as "a spec is implemented" for you or you would have refrained from making your first comment.

And no, there is no polyfills for shadow DOM or Custom Element, that's a lie. Polymer is not a Polyfill for Web Components, it's his own framework.

As for your question, I'm talking about browsers that do not support Custom Elements right now. Edge does not.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#173

Post by aikah » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 10:58 AM UTC

rb666 wrote: post #171

aikah wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Edge and Firefox are only missing Shadow DOM and Custom Elements, Your statement makes no sense whatsoever, they are "only missing" 2 of the most fundamental features of web components? that would actually help getting rid of all these incompatible UI toolkits? I don't call that supporting Web Components at all if you can't write custom elements natively. You obviously do not understand how the lack of support for…

Well, I mean, it's 1 week away from release... https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Rel...

Well you mean it's 1 week away from release in Edge as well? Give me an ETA for Edge.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#174

Post by aikah » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 11:00 AM UTC

ergo14 wrote: post #165

aikah wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Edge and Firefox are only missing Shadow DOM and Custom Elements, Your statement makes no sense whatsoever, they are "only missing" 2 of the most fundamental features of web components? that would actually help getting rid of all these incompatible UI toolkits? I don't call that supporting Web Components at all if you can't write custom elements natively. You obviously do not understand how the lack of support for…

Edge is implementing (updated the roadmap), Firefox ships enabled WC's in closest release (it is already in the beta) I think Firefox 63 will ship in a week?. That leaves only IE11/Edge with polyfills.

> That leaves only IE11/Edge with polyfills.

what polyfills are you talking about? And no, Polymer is not a polyfill for custom element. Please link me to a library that will polyfill the entire shadow DOM and Custom Element spec so that I can write the same code without polyfills on platforms that support both specs and only load the polyfills on platforms that do not.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#175

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 11:03 AM UTC

ergo14 wrote: post #167

aikah wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web components are not supported in many popular browsers. Until they are widely supported they are not a thing. And no, Polymer and co are not polyfills for them, they are their own incompatible frameworks. I agree in principle but it's up to browser vendors to implement specs, and it is always the same offender that is dragging his feet.

Yup, Polymer is "big" dependency, but with things like svelte, litelement or stencil you can build web components which have little overhead. Also polyfills are separate thing from polymer - they are reused by ALL other frameworks including vuejs for example, so I'm not sure what you meant by that comment.

[deleted]

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#176

Post by no1youknowz » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 11:05 AM UTC

ergo14 wrote: post #133

Great, another UI framework that will not work with Vue, Marko, Angular, LitElement or basicly anything else than react. When will the trend stop :/ Can't we embrace web components already and have those UI frameworks work in all popular solutions out there? Every time something new comes out existing solutions are being rewritten from scratch.

I suppose since it's open source, then there is nothing stopping anyone from porting it to Vue?

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#177

Post by wccrawford » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 11:11 AM UTC

quickthrower2 wrote: post #114

dmortin wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is: how many of these will be maintained several years later? Can you build a long term project on these? Or the expectation is that one has to make a new UI anyway every several years to keep up with the changing fashion, so rewrites are inevitable?

Jetbrains would be my bet. They'll look after it even if it doesn't become the most famous library.

Thank you for this comment. I hadn't noticed that they had a ui library and I agree that they'll probably take care of it even if it's not popular. Very nice.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#178

Post by giobox » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 11:15 AM UTC

bthornbury wrote: post #82

alexchamberlain wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing devil's advocate, why is lowering your dependency count a good thing?

Dependencies have cost. You have to monitor for updates, notify the maintainer(s) of any bugs, keep an eye out for security vulnerabilities, and sometimes ( gasp ) even step through them with a debugger. Doing that for one dependency is bad enough, but for 100s it's a nightmare. Personally, I prefer to just pull the pieces I need out of an open source library (unless it's very well maintained, or huge). It's like doi…

> Personally, I prefer to just pull the pieces I need out of an open source library (unless it's very well maintained, or huge). It's like doing a code review at the same time, so you're aware of what's going on in your application.

To quote yourself: Doing that for one dependency is bad enough, but for 100s it's a nightmare.

'Forking' a project's dependencies (which is effectively what this is...) is often fraught with as much trouble as just having the damn dependency in the first place.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#179

Post by wlesieutre » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 11:19 AM UTC

zwily wrote: post #40

ianhawes wrote: post #10

This list was posted a few weeks ago, but here is a fairly definitive list of similar UI frameworks: https://element.eleme.io/ https://ant.design/ https://quasar-framework.org/ https://at-ui.github.io/at-ui/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/fabric https://vmware.github.io/clarity/ http://appnexus.github.io/lucid/ https://ng-lightning.github.io/ng-lightning/ https://blueprintjs.com/ http://www.jetbrains.org/ring-…

Another to add to the list: https://instructure.design (Disclaimer: made by my coworkers)

Scrolling momentum is broken on iOS for me, it makes the page very frustrating to read.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#180

Post by user1010198 » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 11:37 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #148

Vinnl wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I really dislike Polymer's approach of using Web Components as an architectural pattern, but this is the exact use case they're good at. Then again, I can understand that you don't whip something like this up in a day, and support for Web Components might not be as widespread yet as a UI framework author would like.

There is 100% support on the mobile web across Safari and Chrome.

yes but real world applications often need to support more than safari and chrome, so until they are supported across the majority of them including older versions still in wide use then its still a no go for the majority of use cases.